Most people don't agree with their friends about everything, even their best friends.
Sometimes what attracts us to other people is not our similarities, but our differences.
But when a friend's beliefs or opinions are so fundamentally different, it can be challenging not to get caught in arguments with them.
In more severe cases, maintaining the friendship might not even be feasible.
Redditor Leading_Key258 was soon to be married, and her fiancé's childhood friend had agreed to be his best man.
However, over the passage of time, the original poster (OP)'s fiancé and his best man began to view the world in very different ways.
So strong were these differences that the intended best man wasn't even sure he could. go on with his duties.
At a loss as to how to handle this, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors:
"WIBTA? My fiancé's best man threatened to leave the wedding party because my fiancé and I moved in together."
The OP explained why her fiancé and his best man reached a possibly irrevocable dent in their friendship:
"So my fiancee, 22 M[ale], (we'll call him Harry) and I, 23 F[emale], grew up most of our lives in very conservative Christian circles with very traditional views and rules."
"My fiancée's best man, 22 M, (we'll call him Grant) also grew up like this."
"As Harry and I have gotten older, we have drifted away from following the traditions we were raised in."
"Grant still very strongly believes in traditional values and will straight up tell you you are wrong if you don't agree with said values."
"We are one month away from our wedding, and I have been moved in with my fiancé for one month total already."
"I moved in due to my previous living situation being a toxic environment that I needed to get away from, and it didn't make sense to move anywhere else when the wedding was so close and Harry was already living/paying rent in our soon to be shared apartment."
"The only reason we weren't living together our entire engagement is because we wanted to keep peace with our very conservative parents, who would view us living together as a straight-up sin against God, and are also the people paying for the wedding, and would pull the funding if they found out."
"Yes, if I could go back, I wouldn't have let them pay for it and have that power over us, but it's too late for that now."
"The other important detail here is that our apartment is literally across the parking lot from Grant and his wife's apartment in the same apartment complex."
"Yes, we did this on purpose because up until this point, Grant and his wife have been super chill about our difference in values and best friends of ours."
"However, not long after I moved in, Grant obviously saw my car in the apartment parking lot and realized we were living together."
"He had a talk with Harry and straight up told him that 'it's wrong for us to live together' and that Harry 'needs to move out into separate housing until the wedding'."
"We clearly don't agree with him and have no desire to move our things/life/routine again for the whopping month that is left before our wedding just to appease his wishes."
"When Harry told Grant that we don't agree with his moral convictions and have no plans of moving into separate housing, Grant said that he might not be able to be Harry's best man if he doesn't change his mind and move."
"To Grant, standing up at someone's wedding is a statement that he supports everything we are and we do as a couple."
"He said he couldn't in good conscience stand up at our wedding knowing he doesn't agree with the choices we've made and the fact that we had to lie to my parents to live together and get me out of my previous situation."
"Despite this disagreement, Harry still really wants Grant to be his best man and to be a part of our special day."
"What should we do?"
"Should Harry move out just so that Grant will for sure be in the wedding?"
"Should Harry and I say Harry's not moving and possibly risk Grant stepping down?"
"Would we be the a**holes if we just found a way to lie to Grant so he gets off our case?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
The Reddit community was in agreement that the OP was not the a**hole.
Everyone agreed that if Grant was going to let the fact that the OP and Harry were living together before their wedding ruin their friendship, then he wasn't a friend worth holding onto, and didn't deserve to be a part of their wedding:
"NTA and instead of letting Grant decide whether he can allow this behavior I'd remove him from the wedding party and let him know that his threats are unkind, unnecessary and unwelcome."-1TiredPrsn
"NTA."
"Do nothing."
"If you lie, it will be found out and make everything worse."
"Let Grant decide now."
"He's not the ultimate moral authority of what's right and wrong."
"Tell Grant to decide asap so he can be replaced if he's so repulsed by you two living together."
"Accept the fact that Grant and his wife aren't good friends, they are judgmental AHs."
"Not all friendships are forever."- noccie
"NTA."
"You can say that you're sorry he feels that way and that if he feels so strongly about it, he should step down, so you can have someone who accepts you for who you are standing beside you."- North_Artichoke_6721
"'He said he couldn't in good conscience stand up at our wedding knowing he doesn't agree with the choices we've made'."
"Do you and Harry really want someone who doesn't support you standing up at your wedding?"
"NTA."
"Start your life together on your terms, not someone else's."- MorphogeneticGrid
"Grant is not even family."
"Grant can stay home and read his bible."
"Get married without him and his ridiculous judgment."
"Letting him have that much power over you tells him he's allowed to keep pushing his values onto you and walk all over."
"All about forcing his perspective on something down your throat."
"It's utter hogwash."
"I'm sorry, Harry may lose a friend, but who does he want to build an entire marriage with, Grant or you?"
"And if that's actually a hard choice for him, you know where you really stand."
"NTA."- angel9_writes
"Why don't you two go down to the courthouse and quietly elope?"
"Then you're married on your terms and can enjoy the party your parents paid for later?"
"Also, NTA."
"Grant needs to leave well enough alone."- Ok_Complaint_5472
"NTA."
"Grant should stop pushing his outdated Puritan views on others."
"You don't need this guy at your wedding."
"Get someone who lives in the 21st century, not 1600s Salem."- Totallynaturalvibes
"NTA."
"It's weird that Grant is all strict about your living situation, even your parents."
"Tell Grant that a true friend wouldn't be offended by you moving in and tell him it's not his business."
"Why would he abandon the friendship over your guys' living situation?"
"It's weird."
"He being manipulative and a major a-hole."
"It's not his place."
"'Shall not judge be neighbor' I believe is one of the 10 commandments."
"He is committing a sin according to that."- Soullessr0bin
"NTA."
"Tell Grant to get off his high horse."- RumSoakedChap
"NTA."
"And you're likely to have a better marriage because of this."
"I am my husband's second wife because he caved to pressures from his parents to not live together with his college sweetheart."
"And it turned out they weren't well-matched, and because they got married simply to live together, the marriage didn't last."
"She cheated on him and they wound up divorced."
"A WHOLE lotta heartache that could have been avoided."
"They both, at least, figured out early that they didn't want to have kids together."
"When I came along, we were pretty much an insta-couple."
"My hubby moved in with me and then proposed."
"We took a year to plan a ginormous wedding."
"During that time, we asked all siblings and the one SIL to be in our wedding party."
"My BIL and his wife are those holier-than-thou types, too."
"After being asked, he said he needed time to think about it."
"Ultimately, four months later, he called my husband to 'talk about the predicament we had put him in'."
"He and his wife wanted to support my husband."
"But I was clearly the 'devil incarnate' and they worried that a marriage to me would mean that I would corrupt my husband, allowing the devil to win over my husband's soul and relinquishing him to a certain afterlife in hell."
"My BIL still to this day does not know that conversation took place on speaker and that my husband wanted me involved."
"I stayed quiet."
"But, to say it has forever tainted the relationship would be an understatement."
"My hubby called his mom, who then told my BIL in no uncertain terms to knock it off."
"My faith is and always has been important to me."
"But that said."
"I most definitely think you have made a wise choice in extracting yourself from toxicity and placing yourself where you have."
"You are now going into your marriage with eyes wide open."
"And how cool is that, with eyes wide open, that you still want to marry him."
"Maybe the bff needs to bow out and exit stage left."
"Maybe he'll realize how judgmental and stupid he's being someday."
"And maybe not."
"But you and your fiancé are the only ones that need to make this decision."
"And maybe it's best to decide him right out of the wedding party."- Master_Necessary581
If Grant doesn't approve of couples living together before marriage, that is his right, and nothing can change that.
But is sticking to that belief really worth possibly ending his longest-lasting friendship?
A question that Grant will have to answer for himself.
After the way he behaved toward the OP and Harry, it's hard to imagine Grant will even be missed at their wedding.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp