Teenagers often love to buck the system.
Not just the societal system as a whole, but the parental system at home.
Breaking rules isn't new, actually, it's quite old behavior.
And parents haven't found it any less aggravating with age.
Some rules are not meant to be broken.
Redditor Mountain-Dot824 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback, so naturally, he came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
He asked:
"AITA for enforcing basic boundaries on my daughter's sleepover?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I am 42 M[ale], have two kids living with me, my daughter Anya (17 F[emale]) and my stepson Noah (14 M)."
"Noah's mom passed a few years ago, and I've had full custody since."
"He's had a rough go of it, but he's a good kid, with his quirks."
"He's not antisocial or shy, but he does not appreciate having his space invaded, and when very upset, he can kinda 'shut down.'"
"Anya is much more outgoing and has a lot of friends."
"She asked to have a sleepover this weekend with four of them."
"I said yes, of course, but given that the friends who were coming were pretty loud and have a tendency to crowd Noah, I told her to make sure they don't go into her brother's room."
"Also, to keep things down after 11, so that the house can sleep."
"In my opinion, these are not strict rules."
"To my surprise, I came upstairs to check on them at about 10- they are 17, I didn't think I needed to check on them every hour or something- and they were in Noah's room."
"And they looked like they'd been there a while, two were literally sitting on his bed, with him there, one of them was flipping through his sketchbook, another was messing with his other stuff, and they were all kind of giggling in this weird way."
"Noah was clearly upset; he didn't say anything/move, but there were tears in his eyes, and he didn't respond when I tried to talk to him."
"I told the girls to get out right then, and that I was calling every single one of their parents."
"Anya was pretty upset with me, but I told her that I gave them TWO rules and they failed spectacularly."
"I did actually call all of their parents and sent them home as soon as possible. "
"Anya blew up, saying I embarrassed her."
"I told her to go to her room, and that we would speak on this in the morning."
"I spent about 20 minutes with Noah before he decided he wanted to cool down on his own, and I went back to my daughter, who chose not to speak to me."
The OP was left to wonder:
"It's late, both of my kids are (hopefully) asleep, and I'm left not knowing if I handled things right. AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Holy hell, NTA."
"And it's honestly strange that four 17-year-old girls decided to spend their evening harassing a 14-year-old boy." ~ naviismyhomegirl
"NTA. Your daughter needs to be punished."
"I have several older brothers."
"I NEVER went into their rooms and they never went into mine."
"It seems like common decency and common sense not to encroach on other people's privacy."
"They 100% went into his room to tease him."
"And that's disgusting."
"Your daughter would probably be absolutely furious if the roles were reversed and he and his friends went through her room."
"There needs to be consequences for her actions; she is too old to be acting like this." ~ LighthouseonSaturn
"NTA, this is some of the best parenting I have seen in a long time, and I do this sort of thing for a living."
"You handled this perfectly, and your daughter needs to reflect on what she did to him in his safe space."
"If she can't understand, then let her know that for the next week, her room is open to the public for you guys to flip through her personal things with her friends."
"She's far too old to lack empathy, so don't let up or give in at all to her." ~ Skeeballnights
"NTA, but Anya needs further consequences."
"She outright defied you to the detriment of her brother."
"There was no reason for them to do that other than to make him uncomfortable."
"Grounding, removing access to her phone, something."
"I work with teens."
"You can spot the ones not being disciplined from a mile away."
"The fact that SHE'S punishing YOU with the silent treatment tells you that..."
"A) She still doesn't believe she's wrong..."
"B) She doesn't respect you or your rules, and..."
"C) She could not care less about putting her stepbrother in a bad situation."
"Time to show her that actions have consequences." ~ Sweet_Vanilla46
"NTA. They're 17, they should know better." ~ Duckcrocsinmybooty
"NTA. Why the hell would they want to go into his room anyway?"
"I'm amazed you even needed to make that a rule, and they're absolutely little jacka**es for breaking it."
"It's a simple request." ~ ScarlettsLetters
"NTA. In my opinion, your daughter caused this outcome."
"You were clear with her on what the expectations were and chose not to follow one of them."
"She's 17, and it's time she learns what accountability is."
"She's going to be an adult soon, so behaving like a child won't get her far."
"I would have ended the sleepover right then as well."
"Noah is his own person and has his own feelings."
"Those were heavily invaded, and that is unfair to him."
"Anya and her friends had so many other options of places to hang out, other than in his room." ~ Wolf-Pack85
"NTA, but you have an older sibling bullying a younger sibling scenario on your hands."
"As well as a daughter who is a jerk in general, since she clearly intentionally broke that rule only because you gave it to her."
"Like she went out of her way to do this to him and you."
"Appropriate response, but there is a much deeper issue here." ~ whatsupwillow
"NTA. They mean girl ganged up on him in the place that should be his most private and safest."
"I would consider changing boundaries with your daughter's friends in your home to no sleepovers, and they're not allowed to go upstairs."
"At all."
"Your daughter violated your rules and her brother's safety, privacy, autonomy, and comfort."
"Who knows how far their torturing him would have gone if you were asleep rather than awake?"
"As for her friends, they are just as culpable."
"They bullied your son."
"Whether or not your daughter told them the '2 rules,' what they did was invasive, invalidating, and hurtful to your son."
"They think it's fun to bully and force another person to have their space and privacy violated."
"Your son needs and deserves the full support of the adults in the home to protect his boundaries." ~ curiousity60
"NTA. Honestly?"
"You did what you had to."
"You stood up for your son when he couldn't speak."
"Your daughter and her friends, at 17, are more than capable of following rules."
"Your sister knows her brother has issues."
"She and her friends purposely broke your rules just to antagonize him because they knew he wouldn't fight back."
"Your daughter and her friends are bullies, plain and simple."
"It was a tough situation, and you handled it well."
"You showed your son that you will always have his back."
"And you showed your daughter that there are consequences for bullying her brother." ~ R4eth
"NTA. Those girls were being horribly mean to Noah; he had tears in his eyes, and they just didn't care."
"You were absolutely right to kick them out."
"That kind of mean girl behaviour at 17 is gross." ~ zoestewartbooks
"NTA by a country mile."
"Your only two rules were EXTREMELY light."
"Like along the lines of 'I know this goes without saying, but don't be a**holes' rules."
"At 17, she should be able to follow those rules."
"Heck, at 7, she should be able to follow those rules."
"She and her friends were disrespectful a**holes, and you responded with entirely appropriate repercussions."
"Excellent parenting." ~ NearbyCow6885
"NTA. These were very reasonable rules, and she broke them; ending the sleepover is an appropriate consequence."
"Good job in protecting your stepson, make sure that your daughter's anger doesn't turn into resentment towards him; these were her mistakes and her lessons to learn." ~ YouFlatterMeBrian
"NTA. But you need to make it crystal clear to your daughter that HER actions are what resulted in her friends being sent home and the sleepover cancelled."
"If she is embarrassed by that, then she only has herself to blame." ~ JessieColt
"NTA and thank you."
"I can't imagine what it would have done to Noah mentally if you hadn't reacted the way you did."
"And Anya was given the boundaries and chose to ignore them."
"I would talk to her and see how things transpired though."
"If her friends bulldozed her, then she needs to know that they aren't her friends."
"From the little description given, I feel that might be the scenario, but you know… limited info to go on."
"Either way, just now you are doing great! It can't be easy." ~ Angelphish410
"I know it's weird to say one adult to another, but I'm proud of you for not only keeping custody of your stepson but showing him that you care and are his true parent."
"Knowing that he would need space and care, and providing it goes a long way."
"And showing them both that they are equal, no favorites."
"It looks like that's what you are doing, and that is spectacular." ~ SeriousAssistant43
"NTA. Because even if she told them to leave Noah alone and the girls chose to go in his room anyway, they also need to learn to mind the rules and respect other people's boundaries." ~ sweettea75
Reddit is on your side, OP.
Yours and Noah's.
Two gave out two simple instructions.
They ignored your demands.
Now these young ladies are learning consequences.
Give our best to Noah.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp