Naming a baby can be a very special process.
Parents often want it to have a perfect fit.
And the use of certain types of names has evolved over generations.
Some people even make up completely new names.
This evolution doesn't always sit well with family.
Redditor LengthinessOk1528 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for telling my I[n]-L[aw]'s to leave me out of their dispute over future child/grandchild's name?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I'm (25 F[emale]) recently married to Josh (27 M[ale]) and I have a good relationship with his brother Tommy (30 M) and Tommy's wife Lily (30 F)."
"For this reason, when they found out a month ago they were expecting a boy, they asked me if I would be okay with them naming their son Logan. Reason?"
"My name is Logan and they didn't want to make me feel any kind of offended or annoyed that they were using the name too."
"I told them I had no problem with it at all."
"Lily said the name was always on their list, but my joining the family made it sweeter."
"They decided on the full name a week or two ago, and they announced it over a family lunch on Sunday."
"S**t hit the fan immediately."
"M[other]-I[n]-L[aw] and F[ather]-I[n]-L[aw] asked them what they were thinking naming their son after a woman."
"They expressed a lot of displeasure about my name being a boy's name traditionally. "
"But said the name was now directly linked with me, and their grandson should only be named after men."
"Josh told his parents they were being ridiculous and wouldn't they be glad Logan was being reclaimed as a boy name in the family if they were so offended."
"They said it was still on a female in the family now."
"Tommy then tells his parents it's not their decision and the only person they would have accepted criticism about the choice from is me, and I had no problem with them using it."
"They said they should care about how it looks."
"Tommy said it doesn't look bad in any way."
"That people won't care today. It escalated."
"Lily tried to calm them down by saying their Logan would love being named after his amazing (and only) aunt."
"For whatever reason, my ILs decided that I needed to step in, and they told me I should make it known I am no longer okay with another Logan and I should do it for him if nothing else."
"I kept eating through most of this, so I wasn't involved at all."
"I just said I was good, thanks."
"But they didn't like that and pressed the issue."
"Josh told them it was nothing to do with me."
"ILs said it was because Tommy and Lily made it my problem."
"Tommy and Lily apologized to me over ILs."
"I said it was fine."
"But please leave me out of it."
"I gave my blessing."
"I won't take it back."
"But ultimately, the naming is not my decision."
"Tommy apologized again."
"My ILs said I can't stay out of it when it's my name."
"I said not just mine, though, and then went back to eating."
"ILs were not happy with my request to be kept out of it."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Of course NTA."
"But you learned an important lesson (you may have already known)."
"You NEVER share the name until the kid is born."
"I learned the hard way like your B[rother]-I[n]-L[aw]/S[ister]-I[n]-L[aw]." ~ ParticularBanana9149
"To be frank, this is the one time I would share the name before birth, because otherwise, this exact same conversation would have occurred, only with added post-natal hormones and sleeplessness for the new parents."
"NTA OP, your ILs are unhinged." ~ ZippyKoala
"NTA... little dude could just as easily be named after Wolverine from the X-MEN."
"ILs need to get a grip. He's not their child." ~ biohazard221
"NTA. And not gonna lie, I had this hilarious image in my head of you sitting there eating a bowl of cereal while staring at the TV while this was all going down." ~ Moonydog55
"NTA. Your in-laws are absurd."
"If they're upset with their grandson being called Logan because they think that your existence makes Logan into a 'girly' name, that's on them."
"They can make their case, and win or lose on their own merits."
"Trying to persuade you to lie about your opinion in order to help them 'win' is evil scummy dirtbag behavior."
"They are liars without a shred of honor." ~ _mmiggs_
"NTA, I bet they wouldn't bat an eye if grandpa was named Joseph and BIL and his wife decided to name a daughter Josephine."
"But heaven forbid the genders be switched."
"And the whole point of the name having been on their list before OP was in the family is lost on them."
"They aren't naming the baby after OP, instead, they simply share a name."
"People need to get over their belief that they can control what others name their kid."
"And the whole 'they stole my baby's name' trope… name your kid the name you wanted anyway."
"Too bad, so sad if there are two babies named Edwina-Rose Starshine Smith in one family."
"Using the fake outlandish baby name, not one from a real AITA."
"It's not like there isn't a long history of people passing a family name through generations anyway." ~ BluePopple
"NTA - ILs clearly have not been told 'No' enough in their life."
"They appear to be the only ones with a problem."
"They should direct their problem to the nearest brick wall or angrily shout it to the nearest cloud." ~ bestbobever
"So let me get this straight."
"Your in-laws can't control their son (nor should they) so they're attacking you since it's been made clear you and only you have veto power?"
"Bahahaha NTA. Your parent in-laws are." ~ Dry-Reception-2388
"NTA. My younger brother is a Logan, my daughter went to school with 2, one female and one male."
"My male partner's name is Leslie."
"It's a name for God's sake."
"I and many other people have legally changed parts or all of our name for whatever reason."
"Names only have the genders we assign to them."
"Find it funny these same people who complain about boy/girl traditional/original names were some of the first generation to give their kids gender non-conforming names." ~ NaturalPossibility25
"No of course you are NTA."
"You gave your blessing, that is what counts."
"Your ILs just need to suck it up and get with the times."
"They are throwing tantrums about nothing and making a joyous occasion less joyous with their moaning."
"Please tell Tommy and Lily to ignore them, and I hope they get a happy, healthy little Logan." ~ Eva_Roos
"NTA. In-laws want you to be the bad guy for them, good for you refusing to accept the assignment."
"And it sounds like the parents-to-be have their heads on straight too."
"The older generation is just going to have to fulminate in their own bile." ~ CatteNappe
"These people are absolutely unhinged."
'Not the expectant parents, the grandparents."
'This is absolutely NUTS."
"The only people who get a real say are mom and dad, you know, the people having the baby."
'The only time I said anything about the names my children had picked was in cases of extreme tragedies."
"I urged them to consider they were naming a human, not an animal."
"They asked around, found out I was right, and adjusted."
"Where I won't say the names publicly, let's just say they were bad, like super bad."
"It's worse than a nightmare name."
"Not even Tim Burton would name his characters like this. NTA." ~ emptynest_nana
"NTA and ask them if they've really never even heard of Wolverine."
"But in all seriousness, ask them if they care so much about public opinion and fitting in, to see how many boys have been named Logan in the last ten years."
"The overwhelming majority of them are boys."
"Oh, that's different because that's out there, not home in here, with us?"
"Ok then, so we're back to my word as a Logan, and I've already made my choice."
"But the point is that they're not going to suddenly become logical when they've made it very clear that they're making emotional statements."
"Tell them that you're not going to have the conversation again, and mean it."
"Get up and walk out, hang up the phone, ignore the texts."
"You don't have to even tell them why, just remove yourself from the conversation every time."
"Even deaf dogs learn commands eventually." ~ Forsaken_Woodpecker1
"NTA and you handled it perfectly."
"Your BIL/SIL were decent to ask for your blessing for using the name."
"You are right to stay out of this drama."
"It's not your business.'
"It's not your child."
"I would keep repeating that any time your in-laws try to bring you into it."
"'I already gave my blessing. I'm not taking it back. It's not my baby, It's not my body. I want no part of this.'"
"Wash rinse repeat." ~ SubstantialQuit2653
"You and your husband need to have a long hard talk about whether you want these people to be involved in your life in the future and in potential future children's lives."
"They sound toxic as hell and I would NOT, I repeat would NOT, want them around my children to influence them at all." ~ colorsofautomn
"NTA, but hopefully you learn a lesson - don't share the baby's name until the ink is dry on the birth certificate." ~ MooseInteresting3906
"NTA. This kid is not going to care or might actually love that you share a name!"
"It's not like the kid will get made fun of or anything- who will know his aunt's name is Logan too?"
"It sounds like the family might stay pissy about it, but you should be left out of this fight."
"It's just another way they can try to insult you." ~ StarWars-TheBadB_tch
Well, OP, Reddit is with you.
You gave your blessing. And besides that, this is not your fight.
Keep sticking to your guns.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp