Some people are blessed with wonderful mothers who grow to also be wonderful mothers-in-law and grandmothers. Other people are burdened with mothers who will do anything to convince the world around them of how awful of a person their child turned out to be.
Only one of those types of moms deserves to be around their grandchildren, argued the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor This_Cycle740 did not have the best relationship with her mother-in-law, but while they were on a family trip, her MIL took things too far and threatened to call Child Protective Services (CPS) on her.
When she did that, the Original Poster (OP) knew there was no going back for her and her mother-in-law.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for refusing to speak to my mother-in-law (MIL)?"
The OP had a typical, frustrating mother-in-law... until the family vacation happened.
"I haven't spoken to my mother-in-law (MIL) in a little over two months."
"This lady has always infuriated me, but in May, she took it too far."
"We were traveling back from a family function, in separate vehicles, when she decided everyone needed a break. By everyone, she meant her and her sons. I was meant to stay in the car and not stretch my legs."
"My husband and I have a two-year-old girl, who was well past asleep at this point. I got out of the still-running car and walked around the car so that I could stretch my legs and get some fresh air."
The OP was shocked by how her mother-in-law reacted.
"This woman comes at me like she is on a war path, screaming and yelling, and telling me that she's going to call the cops and CPS on me for leaving MY sleeping child in the car, that again was running, and walk around it."
"I was never more than an arm's length away from the car."
"To avoid confrontation, I got back in the car and locked the doors."
"She started screaming and yelling louder, hitting the windows with enough force to break them."
"I rolled my window down and told her to stop."
"She then got in my face and yelled at me that I'm a horrible mother and that I'm worthless and that she's going to take my daughter away from me."
"My husband came outside at this point and told her that she needed to get back in her vehicle before she got her a** kicked."
Though the OP's husband defended her at first, he later expected her to drop it.
"My husband stood behind my decision not to speak to her at first. Now, because his mother is manipulative, he thinks I should just forgive her and move on."
"I told him I don't forgive her, I won't forget, and after six years of marriage, if she can't treat me any better than that, then we (our daughter and I) don't need her in our lives EVER. Or him."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some questioned why the OP's husband was still speaking to his mother after what she did.
"Your husband can have a relationship with her if he wants. All visits will have to be somewhere else because she is not to set foot in your home. And you and your daughter will not have a relationship with her. Will not be celebrating any holidays or birthdays with her, nor buying any gifts." - MommaGuy
"NTA. She honestly sounds unhinged. Is she freaking out like this on anyone else? There could be a biological reason, be it mental or physical, like a brain tumor."
"Whatever the reason, stay far away and protect your baby girl. And if she does anything else, let the police know so it's on record."
"Hopefully, your husband will get this straightened out immediately as she's dangerous." - SnooCauliflowers9874
"NTA and wow, she's certainly doesn't sound stable enough to be around. She sure as heck isn't for your two-year-old."
"What if she'd been awake to have seen Grandma's meltdown? Whatever she's whispering in your husband's ear, you need to simply remind him of every bad time you three have had together. ESPECIALLY if any came right after he convinced you to 'move on' previously." - Owenashi
"You don't forgive for her OR your husband's sake but for yours. Also, forgiveness does not mean that you resume the relationship (i.e. 'all's forgiven, access denied'). The way that this is explained, I would not take any of her calls; send her to voicemail."
"I've been told on Android, you can set a contact to have no ring/text tone and on iPhone, you can download silent tones. I'd only do this because if it's a real emergency, you are aware but she's not disturbing your day. You can check vm at your leisure."
"Then I'd explain to hubs that other than extended family events, you and the children will not be attending, no more vacations, and if it is ever that she speaks poorly in front of your children, she's out - no coming back. He can visit his mom with the children so long as he is there with them but they cannot be left with her."
"Let her go, OP. Don't allow her any real estate in your mind or emotions. Be glad that you're not her." - Additional-Aioli-545
"CPS is not only a threat but indicative of how she plans to escalate, and she is outright telling you that. MIL wants to punish op for standing up to her. MIL does not acknowledge that her own actions are/were harmful, and her intent is to cause more harm and get others (CPS) to help her."
"If anyone else had done this, say your mother, would your husband feel the same, h**l no. It would be a fight to the death to protect his family, so why is Mommy Dearest allowed to sweep her actions and threats away? She is not and needs stronger consequences and action."
"MIL needs to earn her way back. So what has MIL done? Has she apologized and owned her violent behavior and threats? What action has she taken, like is she going to anger management or therapy to address her violence and threats?"
"So, if MIL has done nothing but gets to re-enter your life, what does that tell her? It tells her that all she has to do is whine to your husband long enough to wear him down until he caves, and she can then do whatever she wants, to whoever she wants, and the only price for that is a time out."
"Not making her earn her way back is the same as enabling her, you get nowhere but a whole lot more of the same and worse. MIL is a b**b waiting to go off."
"Opinion: Force her into weekly anger management/therapy with receipts, with no contact for one year. After one year, she might be granted supervised visits with you and your daughter with your husband present."
"I doubt she will be willing and throw a huge tantrum at the suggestion, which means she is not willing to do the work, and that is both a choice and an answer to the problem of her being in your life." - Dismal-Remote-3906
Others agreed and stated the MIL would have been out their lives the minute she threatened their children.
"The minute she threatened CPS, that should have been the end of the relationship. NTA." - Annoyedredheadedmom
"She severed the relationship forever when she threatened CPS. I get your husband wants his mother in his life, but he needs to tell her again she was wrong and reiterate she blew it." - ncjr591
"She's done. She made her threats and abused you."
"Your husband better decide where his future is. That manipulative cow that birthed him. OR you and his child."
"There would be no discussing this or her ever again. She doesn't exist. She deserves NOTHING from you ever."
"And if your husband has words to say to you otherwise, you send him to these posts. NTA." - grayblue_grrl
"NTA. And I'd lawyer up. I'd have some sort of statements somewhere with a legal person saying that she was violent and made that threat."
"So if CPS is called for no reason in the future, they know who to look at. Your husband needs to consider VERY CAREFULLY if he wants to expose your daughter to the same shit he's getting." - Horror-Option-7416
"NTA. Tell husband, The moment she threatened to take my child away was the moment she made the choice to never see my child again. Period."
"I will not be threatened. I will not let my child grow up seeing her mother be abused and her father expecting me and her to just deal with said abuse. I will not let your mother turn her abuse onto my child."
"The fact that you want me to forgive her for threatening to take my child from me. She beat hard enough on a window while in a rage that if it had shattered, it could have seriously hurt our child."
"And what then. Would you expect me to forgive if she had hit me? If she scared our child in her rage. What about if she hurts our child? The fact that you are putting her wants above my and our child's needs is not only concerning. It's becoming a deal breaker."
"So you can accept that or not, but know I will protect my child from all dangers. Your mother is a danger. If you won't protect our child, I will protect you from you as well. Because your mother is not and will never be more important than your child."
"So decide whether you are a father and husband. Or a weak-willed momma's boy. Because that choice will decide how much you are actually in our lives."
"This isn't about forgiveness. This isn't about understanding. This is about you showing that you will not let anyone abuse us. That you will not expect us to be abused. This is about showing our child she can trust us to keep her safe." - tiny-pest
The subReddit was appalled by how the OP had been treated, especially on this trip, and there was no question in anyone's minds that the OP's husband needed to step up and create a safe boundary between his mother and his family.
Otherwise, one thing was for certain: If the husband would not choose the OP and their daughter, then the OP would have to choose herself and her child, for safety's sake.
To escalate like this over such a small matter on a relaxing famliy vacation was nothing short of a million toxic red flags.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp