Content Warning: Child Neglect, Trauma Response, Domestic Abuse, Child Protective Services (CPS)
As much as we might like to imagine the good in the world, the truth is that not everyone has a good home life.
The even worse truth is that, as much as we might like to be, we're not always going to be the right person to help them with their situation, empathized the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor flowergirltherapy knew that her half-siblings were in a difficult home situation and helped out in any way that she could.
But when her youngest sister became violent with her over becoming engaged to her partner, the Original Poster (OP) wasn't sure what to do next.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for banning my five-year-old sister from my wedding unless she gets therapy before the wedding?"
The OP tried to help her half-siblings as much as she could.
"I just want to start off by saying I (24 Female) love my baby sister more than anything in the world. I drive a three-row car because it was able to fit her and my other siblings (9 Female and 7 Male) and some of their friends."
"They are my half-siblings, as we all have the same dad but a different mom."
"Their mom is not interested in being with them unless she can get an Instagram photo out of it, and our dad has never been involved. When they are at home, my nine-year-old sister is responsible for them."
"My fiancé and I watch the kids after school every day, and they spend the night with us two to four days a week. My fiancé is great with the kids and they adore him."
The situation worsened when the OP's fiancé proposed to her.
"My fiancé proposed six months ago, and when we told the kids, the older two were excited but Evie, the five-year-old, was furious. She started crying and hitting me because she wanted to marry him, and if I marry him, she can't."
"She refused to speak to me for almost a week, and now she's mostly okay, but she gets mad at me and starts crying and hurting me any time she sees me kiss him."
"Every time I kiss him or we sit too close together on the couch or he sits next to me at a restaurant, she will hit me, kick me, punch me, bite me hard enough to draw blood, and pull my hair out (often with hair being pulled out or snapped). This has been going on for six months."
"It's gotten to a point that my fiancé has suggested that we stop watching her for my safety."
"Whenever she throws one of these tantrums, we give her a timeout, sometimes we take toys away, and my fiancé stops playing with her, and when she asks why, he says that he doesn't like playing with people who hit other people. If she throws a tantrum when we are out in public, we take her home instead."
"There's nothing else that we can do, because we are not their legal guardians. We will not hit them, but we also cannot do anything else, like seek therapy for her."
The OP wasn't sure it was safe to involve her five-year-old sister in the wedding anymore.
"She was supposed to be our flower girl, but I really don't think she'll be able to sit through the wedding without some kind of outburst or trying to hurt me at the altar."
"I called our dad, told him about all of this, and said that she won't be allowed to attend the wedding unless she starts seeing a therapist before the wedding. The wedding is in September so he has a couple of months to get her in therapy."
"He's saying she doesn't need therapy and that she's just a 5-year-old with a crush on my fiancé. He says that I'm overreacting, and that she won't forgive me if I exclude her from the wedding."
"AITAH for banning her unless he gets her therapy?"
The OP shared another post the next day, highlighting Evie's treatment of her.
"My dad dropped the kids off last night, and while I was giving the youngest a bath, I started to get dizzy and nauseous, so I called my fiance to get her out of the bath and into bed."
"He got her out of the bath and gave her a towel to dry off, and then he focused on me to make sure I was okay."
"That set her off, so she started her hitting, kicking, and pushing, and when my fiancé let go of me to grab her to stop her, she pushed me over, and I cracked my head on the edge of the bathtub."
"It was a mess. My fiance called 911 on his phone while using mine to call my dad to get the kids."
"I hurt my head and neck and will be in the hospital for the next few days. They want to monitor me for a concussion and try to figure out why I got dizzy in the first place."
The OP's fiancé came up with an ultimatum of his own.
"When my dad picked the kids up, my fiancé told him we won't be watching them anymore unless we become their guardians."
"We've talked before about not taking care of the kids anymore, mostly my youngest sister, because of how she's reacting, but I also know how neglected they are at home, and in my own childhood, I spent time in the foster care system, and I refuse to put them through that h**l."
"We would be willing to become their legal guardians, but we know we wouldn't be eligible because we live in a two-bedroom apartment. We were looking into buying a two- or three-bedroom house or condo, but his mom thought that a four- or five-bedroom house in a good school district would be better in the long run, so we wouldn't have to move when it's time to start growing our family."
"Those houses were out of our budget, so as our wedding present, she is helping us get a bigger house. That would be big enough for us to be eligible to take my siblings in, and maybe we can have children of our own one day in the future, too."
"For now, the kids are back at my dad's house indefinitely, and we're going to get my nine-year-old sister a phone, so she can keep us updated and ask for help when and if she needs it."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some agreed with the OP that her five-year-old sister needed therapy, and perhaps more.
"While I do think it is risky for you and your fiancé to become their guardians, I think it could also help. There's obviously something going on at home and it could be more extensive than what you said in a comment so taking them out of that environment could help with her anger/animosity towards you and your fiancé."
"The best course of action is to prioritize your health and safety first then possibly call CPS so they could intervene and hopefully allow you and your fiancé to become their guardians and get the kids the therapy they need."
"Also, the youngest might not have an actual crush on your fiancé and might see him more as a father figure and is scared that once you get married he won't be there for her anymore or knows kids might be a possibility and doesn't want to be 'replaced.'"
"It's pretty clear to me that she has attachment trauma, and a stable environment is what she needs. But this needs to be explored more to decide if you're the right environment for her." - Eternalconstellation
"The sister is five, she is not malicious, she has a s**tty home life and is scared she will lose the only people who actually care about her, and she is acting out."
"OP can't get her the help she needs because the parents are blocking it. I love that the two of them are advocating for these kids, even if it's going to be hard." - IndividualDevice9621
"Based on your information, I'd say there is absolutely a severe case of neglect at minimum happening at home. You've said the parents aren't involved. This is neglect and abuse whether you think it is or not."
"Dad doesn't want to take the kid to therapy because they're mandated reporters, and this will likely result in CPS being involved. Despite your avoidance of this, it's likely best case scenario. CPS needs to be involved, especially now that she has cracked your head open."
"This is dangerous and I hope you're taking it as seriously as you should. You not babysitting them anymore is not punishment enough for their parents and it only puts the children in a more dangerous situation."
"Call CPS. Now." - Iamourdemavieee
"I think there's something going on at her parents' home that is making her act out. She feels safe enough with you to act out."
"I hope you're okay."
"She definitely needs therapy. Something more than what we know is going on."
"Please keep us updated. And put yourself first. If she's getting this violent, she needs to be seen. My guess is she sees your husband as the only safe adult male in her life. My guess is your father is not a safe male to her. Why that is I do not know and I'm not going to speculate."
"Please take care of yourself and your whole family." - ElehcarTheFirst
"This child needs way more than therapy so she won't act out at a wedding. All these children need parents who don't neglect them, and that can't be improvised through you no matter how much you love them and want to help."
"Do you have the authority to authorize medical treatment in an emergency when they're with you? If they get hurt on your property, or if a drunk driver runs into your van, who will their mother blame?"
"If their parents are their legal guardians and have no interest in them and they're essentially living with you, is anyone even taking care of their medical needs? Are they getting to school when with their parents? Do they have any friends or go to any appropriate activities for children their ages?"
"Are they enrolled in any activities their parents/legal guardians would need to give permission for first? You can't rebuild a normal childhood and none of this is normal."
"You can try to get them all help going forward, and in many US states their teachers/physicians (if they're taken there by their parents) would be mandatory reporters if they knew this information about their legal guardians' leaving them essentially living with you when you're not their legal guardians and apparently couldn't even make medical decisions for them in an emergency."
"In my opinion, you're describing neglect and those kids need protection in every way. When this parental neglect by BOTH parents is happening at five, what do you think she'll be at risk for as a pre-teen and teen with a 'mother' without interest in her as a toddler? And what do you think her siblings are going through instead of acting out at others?"
"Note that you have no authority to get her emotional support/therapy and have to rely on her legal guardian. Those children need their own legal advocates with only their interests in mind. Your father couldn't be clearer that his only interest is pacifying his wife and is therefore at least equally neglectful."
"These kids all need objective outside evaluation by people qualified to help them. It's not a wedding problem, and if it were, a bandaid on that situation won't help any of these kids."
"NTA. But get each one of these kids outside qualified help." - Fair-Ninja-8070
As kind as it was, others urged the OP and her fiancé to reconsider their guardianship.
"Do you really want to be their guardians, though? Does your fiancé?" - Motor-Juggernaut1009
"This is not at all safe for you even if you love those kids. You need to put yourself and your fiance first. Esp if as suggested she may make claims against him out of anger and ruin both your lives." - CritterAlleyMom
"CPS needs to be involved if your dad is neglecting your younger siblings. It needs to be assessed whether living with you full time will be safe or appropriate for five-year-old, who could have killed you."
"You're in the hospital for DAYS. Are you going to be suffering long-term consequences from your injury? Head injuries can manifest new symptoms weeks, even months after they happen. Are you even in a fit state to care for the kids, let alone one that's this violent?"
"What if she gets hold of a knife? If the child doesn't respect you, how are you supposed to manage her? It would be unfair for your fiance to manage five-year-old on your behalf while dealing with her obsession."
"What's more, it could very easily turn into a very dangerous situation for your partner if your little sister declares in public how she wants to marry him/be the only one to kiss him and displays such hostility towards you; it wouldn't take much for people to assume your fiance is grooming her because this behavior is both consistent and extreme."
"Also, is HE ok? He just saw the love of his life get hospitalized by this kid, is he even comfortable being around her at this point, is he resenting her? Is he afraid to tell you because of how enmeshed you are with your siblings?"
"Realistically, is becoming a five-year-old's and siblings' full-time guardian safe for you all? Because the other kids have to endure this alarming obsession and the aftermath as well. It's not healthy for anyone."
"Are you in therapy yourself? Do you have issues from your childhood that need to be addressed that could explain why you're rushing into being so involved in these kids' lives? (I'm not saying you're wrong to want to be involved nor that your worry isn't justified, especially if there's neglect happening, but if you're not in a stable safe mental space then you're at risk of spiraling which won't be good for anyone)."
"Hope you recover soon." - I_wanna_be_anemone
"If you and your fiancé become their guardians, you're crazy. She literally almost killed you and she's five, imagine the obsession that will develop if she lives with you and what she will do about it by the time she's 10. Save yourself!" - Substantial-Sir-9947
"I understand that you've had a history with foster care and are apprehensive about calling CPS. I saw your comments in your first post that basically the kids are with you most of the time. If you do end up wanting guardianship (which gives you more legal rights) then CPS will most likely help you. There is a big push to keep children with their biological family members."
"If you wait, knowing that these kids are being abused, it will make it harder to get custody, assuming that's what you want after all this with your five-year-old sibling. They will call you on not reporting sooner. Plus, something could happen to them in the meantime." - Bigjoeyjoe81
Not only was the subReddit deeply concerned about what was going on in the children's home and how the five-year-old was treating the OP, but they were also especially concerned with the OP introducing the idea of full-time guardianship.
If she was worried about her sister being exposed to her getting married by simply attending the wedding, as a flower girl or not, it hardly made sense to expose her to the idea full-time at home.
Perhaps it could be a possibility in the future, but while the little sister was processing all of these changes, perhaps less exposure would be better.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp