Taylor Swift brings a lot of joy to many people.
However, some people find her a divisive figure.
She can often be weaponized to frustrate and trigger her biggest fans.
This behavior isn't saved for teenagers, either.
Redditor tamponsaver wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback, so they came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
They asked:
"AITA for telling my B[rother]-I[n]-L[aw] to stop picking on my kids, or he's not coming on vacation?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I have three kids, Rob (16 M[ale]), Lisa (14 F[eamle]), and Anne (9 F)."
"Lisa is autistic, and her special interest is Taylor Swift."
"Rob and Anne go along with it and indulge her."
"They're good kids who care and support each other, and Rob and yes Anne get attention and support for their interests too."
"My brother-in-law Hector's entire personality is trying to rile people."
"You know the whole 'it's just a joke bro.'"
"Super childish, but whatever. He's family."
"Except my husband is out of the country, so I guess he thinks he gets to do whatever he wants."
"A few weeks ago, he started needling at Lisa by making fun of Taylor Swift using lots of childish name-calling words, intentionally using the wrong word for fans and stuff."
"Just really immature kid stuff."
"Lisa knows that not everyone likes T[aylor] S[wifty], and some people even hate her."
"One of her best friends hates her."
"She's not unable to hear different opinions."
"She has her own, and I'm sure she'd LOVE to share with you all if you had 4 hours to spare."
"He would say, 'Well Swiffers did XYZ.'"
"She would say 'Uncle Hector it's Swifties' and he would say it again to needle at her."
"Rob was in the room, I was not."
"Rob said to him, 'Why do you keep using the wrong word? She told you the right word?'"
"Hector said he can say whatever he wants and to 'cry about it.'"
"Rob said, 'It just seems like you're going out of your way to upset Lisa.'"
"Rob asked her to finish what she was talking about and to ignore Hector."
"This is when I came into the room, and Hector waved at the kids and said, 'Roberta's getting real mad that someone's joking about mother?'"
"I wasn't in the room, so I didn't hear the comment about me and Rob said I wouldn't get it."
"Before I could say anything, Rob said, 'Bro did you really just call me a girl's name? Are you 12?'"
"I put my hands up and said, 'Okay, enough, Hector, stop.'"
"He said I'm raising soft kids who can't take a joke."
"I said he's being so effing rude and that he wouldn't be acting like this if my husband was home."
"I said that if he wants to still go with us to Colorado in the summer like we were planning, he has to stop NOW, or he's not coming."
"This set him off, and he said I had no right to do that (yes I do) and that I'm being a controlling yak over Taylor Swift."
"I said no, f**k Taylor Swift, this is about you being mean to your niece because her dad isn't home."
"He said f**k you and good luck next time we have a problem, we're on our own."
"He took his Costco chicken and left, and I swear he must have immediately gone running to my M[other]-I[n]-L[aw] because she called me to ask for what really happened and sighed a lot."
"I asked her if I was overreacting, and she said she just hoped we could work it out because that trip was all he had to look forward to since he was laid off from work."
"I HATE causing drama in the family."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So am I the a**hole, and out of line?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. You should be proud of your son for standing up for his sister."
"The BIL does not deserve to go for being a nasty piece of work." ~ Perfect_Ring3489
"I hope NEXT time your shi**y BIL needles the kids and your son is assertive, respectful, and protective?"
"You respond by praising the hell out of him in front of your BIL. Ignore him for a minute and ask the kids to clear the room."
"THEN address the immature a**hole and tell him he will behave or he will leave."
"And if he leaves/cannot adjust himself to be a good family member?"
"Then he is not welcome. NTA."
"But f**k giving him bad dog attention (which he gets off on) and getting your energy and hurting your kids." ~ Electronic_Charge_96
"Good for you - he's acting like a whiny, rude teenager, so you threatened like a teenager."
"I would already be not taking him just to keep the peace. NTA OP." ~ IgnotusPeverill
"NTA - Hector is what we call Schrodinger's AH."
"He says something awful, then waits to gauge the reaction to decide if it's a joke or not."
"He's made being a jerk his whole personality. What adds spice to the jerk is how he can dish it out but can't take it, and that a grown a*s man had to go cry to his mommy because a child hurt his fee-fees."
"He is a profoundly unserious person who has probably never engendered respect in another human in his life. "
"He's so awful that he has to bully an autistic child."
"None of that makes him edgy and cool."
"He's just an AH." ~ PomegranateReal3620
"NTA! You protected your kids."
"Your son seems wise beyond his years and brave to stand up to a family member like that."
"This is a perfectly reasonable natural consequence for the uncle to face."
"He has to be agreeable and kind to be invited on family vacations lol."
"That's not a huge stretch."
"I hope he can come around."
"I'm glad your M[other]-I[n]-L[aw] didn't like... completely take his side?"
"But it sounds like she is a huge enabler."
"There is a lot of irony in saying, 'I hope you can work it out because that trip was all he had to look forward to since being laid off from work.'"
"Um, well?"
"If he cared about the trip, maybe he should be grateful and respectful to his family so as to not put it at risk."
"Maybe he's a grown f**king man and shouldn't be coddled with vacations just so he has something to look forward to."
"Make sure your husband is on board."
"You know BIL will go to him next and will attack your parenting and your logic and your teachings."
"You have your head on straight."
"Perhaps with your husband present, you can have an adult conversation with your BIL about the role of jokes with your kids and that his jokes lead heavily with negativity, from making fun of topics to calling people the wrong names just to mess with them... like classic playground stuff, and if he wants a role in the family he needs to do better." ~ owls_and_cardinals
"NTA - Honestly, it's a little weird to me for your husband's brother to be hanging out at your house while your husband is away." ~ tiger0204
"NTA. Don't bring him."
"Three kids on a trip is enough."
"You don't need a fourth."
"This 'it's just a joke' nonsense is just an excuse for garbage people to be garbage and continue to avoid taking responsibility for their actions."
"I wouldn't want someone like that on a trip with me or around my kids."
"Maybe he should worry less about looking forward to a trip and more about looking forward to being a better person."
"Please be assured that not tolerating piss poor behavior from a grown man isn't you starting drama." ~ LevelCurrent3791
"Fully agree. I'd like to add that he's so miserable that he's trying to tear down CHILDREN to make himself feel better."
"Your 16-year-old showed more emotional maturity than this adult."
"Rather than take accountability, this grown man tried to 'tattle' on him twice - once to you and once to his mother - and then had a tantrum when he was scolded."
"No wonder he's unemployed and alone…" ~ IntuitiveMonster
"You were much more civil than I would be."
"If that was my son and my autistic child my wife's brother was bullying, I most likely would have thrown him out of my house - through the bay window."
"Then, I'd need bail money, a contractor, etc... it just gets messy."
"Good job resisting that temptation."
"If your husband was home, I doubt he would have reacted the same way."
"Unless Hector is 12, he needs to understand how to be an adult."
"Part of that is this..."
"1 - You don't bully small children, and..."
"2 - You don't go crying to Mommy when somebody hurts your wittle feelings."
"Are you okay, Cupcake?"
"Do you need your emotional support chicken and some essential oils?"
"Hector can grow some juevos; man up and apologize.
"He needs to apologize to your children, you, his brother for disrepecting his family, and his mother for bringing her into this."
"After a SINCERE apology, you can forgive his boorish conduct and move forward."
"If he doesn't, you are morally and legally obligated to PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN!!!"
"That includes from toxic dirtwipes like Hector."
"For their safety and your sanity, he needs to be kept FAR apart from your family."
"NTA 100-150%, adjusting for inflation." ~ No_Yogurtcloset_1687
"Yes, Hector is a sadist like all these 'constantly trolling' types are."
"And true to type, he is also incredibly fragile when it's his feelings on the line."
"No one has a responsibility to protect the little fees of sadists."
"Kudos to Rob." ~ Learned_Hand_01
"NTA... Is this man an adult?"
"He had his mommy telephone you?"
"You've given him the terms."
"He can decide how important this trip is to him."
"You're raising good kids who have each other's backs, so good on you for that." ~ RoyallyOakie
"Right! He needs to learn to stop being an AH."
"Let's call it what it was... a grown man bullying a 14-year-old girl who happens to be autistic."
"He needs to realize that he's not in middle school anymore."
"Maybe if he grew up, he could get a job."~ me0mio
"NTA, but I'm really curious about how Anne actually felt about it."
"Does she know that Uncle Jerkface is joking and trying to rile her up?"
"I'm guessing she has some really good coping skills because you don't mention her getting upset or melting down or anything."
"I hope her older siblings can clue her in about ways to cope with stupid teasing people like her Uncle." ~ hpotter29
"NTA. Hector is having a hard time with life right now if he just got laid off, and it's SO SAD that the only recourse he has to feel better about himself is to bully his niblings."
"The fact that your 16-year-old son has a higher maturity and emotional intelligence level than his adult uncle says a lot (good things about you and your husband's parenting... and bad things about Hector)."
"It sounds like Hector needs CONSEQUENCES - and not being able to attend a family trip with kids that he bullies is a natural consequence." ~ KBD_in_PDX
"NTA: Hector is a f**cking bully, but to big a chicken sh*t to bully adults... only children."
"I would not allow him around my kids at all."
"Bullies aren't offered space at my table until they show me they have changed through real, honest apologies and changed actions." ~ lunarteamagic
"NTA, of course."
"Your first priority is to protect your kids from meanies like Uncle Hector if they're disabled or not, to be honest."
"Kids (yes, even older kids or your adult kids) deserve to be protected from mean people, even if they are related."
"If he can't behave like a normal, mature adult who doesn't rile up kids for fun, then he can't go on a family trip."
"Sounds fair to me."
"If he really wants to come, he can start behave not like an AH now, stop this weird rude behavior and make it up to them (i.e. apologize sincerely)."
"Respecting other people is not raising them soft."
"It's raising them to be kind people with compassion, so they don't end up like Uncle Hector." ~ Crazyandiloveit
"If he was really looking forward to it, that should give him some motivation to think about his behavior."
"NTA for you, OP; you did better than most would." ~ atealein
OP came back to chat...
"Thanks for all the feedback."
"I have a path forward."
"It also needs to be said that some of you are just inventing an entirely new story involving Hector losing his job because he has a bad personality."
"This is entirely fictional. This didn't happen."
"His job laid off almost everyone because they are struggling with money and likely won't recover."
It's great to hear that you could feel the Reddit love, OP.
Hector is problematic.
Maybe you should sit down with your MIL and husband, and they can talk to him about his behavior.
You're a good mom for trying to keep such toxicity away from your kids.
Good luck and just... "Shake it Off, Shake it Off!" ;)
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp