Sometimes, people get pushed too far and say things they regret.
What's said is mean-spirited and unnecessary.
Even if what is said can be right on the money and deserved.
Humans only have so much patience.
And when patience runs out, gloves come off.
Redditor Impressive_Apple8399 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback, so naturally, she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"AITA for telling my husband's ex to keep her jealousy to herself?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (30 F[emale]) am newly married to my husband, Rick(30 M[ale])."
"So I'll try to explain the backstory/relationships but I suck at typing so sorry ahead of time."
"Rick was raised with Maddie (30 F[emale])."
"My M[other]-I[n]-L[aw] (50 F) and Maddie's mom were best friends since they were babies.'
"They dated back in high school, but it didn't work out."
"They did, however, remain close friends."
"I probably should note that Maddie ended up marrying my older B[rother]-I[n]-L[aw] 5 years ago."
"So, on to now."
"Rick and I have spent the last year wedding planning and doing the all of the traditional events that come with that."
"It's been an incredibly stressful time, but being my S[ister]-I[n]-L[aw] Maddie was at almost everything."
"Normally, this wouldn't be a problem."
"I like Maddie... but it seemed like every passing day, she would get angrier with me."
"This led all the way up to our rehearsal dinner when she started making comments 'in a joking manner,' saying, 'I could have been his wife,' 'I would have looked stunning next to him at the altar.'"
"This continued most of the way through our meal."
"I admit I was irritated and not enjoying myself because of it."
"When she 'jokingly' asked Rick why they broke up again, I decided to speak up and told her to keep her jealousy to herself."
"She acted like she didn't know what I was talking about."
"I told her I've had to listen to her little remarks at the rehearsal for MY wedding, and I was tired of it."
"She shut up, but my BIL and MIL kept looking at me funny for the rest of the event."
"When Rick and I got back from our honeymoon 2 days ago, my MIL had a talk with me about how that was incredibly rude and that I owe Maddie an apology."
"I'm starting to wonder if I was actually in the wrong here."
"Rick says I was justified, but MIL and BIL are still upset with me over it."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA - tell your MIL that Maddie was a rude and disrespectful person."
"She made your rehearsal dinner about her and Rick's past relationship, making you uncomfortable."
"Yes, you reacted, but you deserved not to have your husband's ex carrying on about their past relationship at your wedding events."
"Maybe Maddie thought it was cute or funny, but to you, it was insensitive and upsetting."
"Your wedding was not about Maddie or Maddie and Rick's past."
"You are not apologising to Maddie, and frankly, if it were me, I would tell MIL I'm a grown a** woman; it's not her place to tell me to apologise as if I'm a child."
"I can judge my actions myself, and I'm comfortable with them - sometimes you gotta be an AH to make a point and stop other AHs like Maddie in their tracks." ~ Kami_Sang
"Where was Bil during all this time Maddie was gushing over her past with Rick?"
"You would think he wouldn't be so happy about how Maddie was saying she would do good marrying Rick, as if she's saying she married the wrong brother."
"How does BIL feel about this?"
"If he feels the same as you, you should both confront MIL and Maddie and tell them that Maddie is the rude one and owes you (and BIL) the apologies." ~ Dense_Dress_1287
"I also agree."
"It might also be time for OP's husband to cut Maddie out of his life."
"Her words and actions were."
"Not those of a true caring friend.'
"Honestly, I'm shocked he didn't shut her down right away."
"This 'friendship' should have ended ages ago."
"Sounds like she's still carrying a torch for him."
"NTA. I just read the post again."
"I just crawled out of bed, LOL... so maybe he can't cut her off, but he should be talking to his brother and NIP this ASAP."
"It's not healthy." ~ Capable_Restaurant11
"NTA - what Maddie did was way out of line."
"Your mother-in-law is also way off base in supporting Maddie in this."
"Also, your brother-in-law is mad at the wrong person."
"He should be upset with his wife for saying that his brother should've been with her instead!" ~ Vyckerz
"NTA. I would sit down with your husband and talk about how Maddie made you feel."
"Let him know that she spoiled something that should've been a special moment, and you're not going to be dealing with her for the rest of your life."
"This means that he needs to run interference with his parents and brother."
"This means he needs to have a conversation with them about when Maddie is allowed to interact with your life and what your boundaries are as a couple." ~ AGirlCalledPearl
"NTA. She was disrespectful."
"You don't owe her anything."
"She was purposely trying to hurt you and ruin your joy."
"My question is, did MIL and BIL actually hear you call Maddie out and what you actually said, or did she relay it back to them?"
"It's important to know that they have accurate information and not some made-up story that she manipulated."
"You may have to have a conversation with them about what was said and everything she did prior."
"As far as your MIL and BIL go, is anyone there going to address the elephant in the room?"
"Maddie is currently married to your husband's older brother… and she is still making comments about how she should have been with Rick and questioning why she and Rick broke up."
"Doesn't her husband and your MIL find that at all concerning, disrespectful, or offensive to her husband?"
"Don't they find that odd that she's still pining after her husband's younger brother?"
"You're not wrong."
"No apology needed from you."
"She owes you and Rick an apology."
"Your husband should be disgusted and demanding an apology from his family for how they're treating you and how Maddie was treating both of you."
"It was directed at him too and very awkward and uncomfortable for him as well." ~ Bluntandfiesty
"NTA. Hubby needs to be the one dealing with MIL, not you."
"If he doesn't, Mommy Dearest will drive a wedge between the two of you." ~ Sadpepper2015
"I agree."
"OP's husband needs to talk to his family and make it clear to all of them, but especially Maddie, that this wasn't funny or cute in any way." ~ SweetNothings12
"NTA. But ew!!!"
"She dated one brother."
"Married the other brother."
"Is now commenting that she should be married to the first brother while remaining married to the second brother."
"Talk about All in the Family." ~ LetsGetsThisPartyOn
"NTA - I'm sure she spun her version of how nice and supportive she has been this entire time and has no idea what you are talking about and how you cannot take a joke."
"Do not apologize, and you and your husband go over to mil house and lay out everything she has been doing and saying."
"If MIL still makes excuses, then that is on her, but keep calling SIL out, and your husband needs to stop the comments also as they happen." ~ Ok_Objective8366
"Tell MIL that you agree it was rude, but you were talking to her like she had been talking to you."
"Say how gracefully you involved her in planning and how she did not stop the comments."
"You made a decision to behave differently to make her stop, and it worked."
"You will not apologize, and if MIL wants to smooth things over, she can support Maddie in dealing with her choices."
"But that you have nothing to do with their dating past and Ricky has moved on, and you won't tolerate mean-spirited jokes about your relationship." ~ baurette
"I would tell MIL that I'm not apologizing."
"Maddie was not only disrespectful to OP and her relationship, but Maddie was disrespectful to her husband."
"I bet she only married the brother because she couldn't marry Rick."
"Maddie needs to apologize, and OP, I hope she's not in your wedding party." ~ Primary_Aerie5510
"Tell your MIL that the rude one was Maddie."
"This wasn't her wedding, she kept making it about HERSELF and Rick, and you tolerated her crap until you didn't want to anymore, and she's been awful to you at increasing speeds as your wedding got closer."
"She owes YOU the apology."
"Your husband agrees with you."
"So when Maddie is ready to sincerely apologize, you'll welcome it." ~ CarrotofInsanity
"NTA, she said those things cause SHE IS jealous."
"I personally think more people need to be shamed publicly for their obvious bad behavior, cause I guarantee if you had tried to talk to her privately about it she would have laughed it off and then had more fodder for the rumor MIL."
"I wonder if BIL is upset 'cause he knows he's second choice." ~ M312345
"NTA, but what you're omitting entirely is Rick's reaction."
"It's his ex, his mother, and brother."
"Why didn't he put a stop to it sooner?"
"Did he just sit idly by and let you handle it?"
"If that's the case, you just married him, and he's already showing you that he won't stand up for you."
"I'm not going to touch the 'she dated the younger brother and then married the older one' trope with a ten-foot pole." ~ randomstat123
"NTA. Ask them if they would be okay if someone kept saying they would look better than them with their spouse at their wedding."
"How would that go over?"
"They can feel however they want to feel."
"All they needed to do was tell Maddie to stop saying inappropriate things at someone else's rehearsal dinner, then no one would have responded to her comments."
"Let your BIL know that he can let her say whatever he wants her to say to him, but you will not let someone ask her husband to be why they broke up while sitting next to his brother who is also their husband."
"How can he think what she was saying was appropriate?"
"Why would he be okay with her saying that she would look stunning standing next to him?"
"Why is he okay with that?"
"If he wants to lie and say he didn't hear her, then he doesn't have all of the information, and now that he does, is he going to make his wife apologize for her comments?"
"They can't have it both ways."
"If she was inappropriate first, then she needs to apologize; that only makes sense."
"But, if they want to spare her feelings, they can't."
"She opened her mouth and did and said what she said."
"None of this would have happened if she hadn't said anything."
"She chose to say those things during someone else's rehearsal dinner."
"No one does that. It is inappropriate, petty, and disruptive."
"So, they need to talk with her and get her to apologize for her behavior."
"Let them all know there is no way you will apologize, none."
"No one is going to say they would look better standing next to my husband, EVER."
"Be well and update me." ~ Lucky_Log2212
"Nope. You stood up for yourself."
"It wasn't her wedding."
"She was being disrespectful and, if anything, owes you an apology."
"Not likely to happen, so I'd just stand your ground and state that you expressed your feelings, and that's that." ~ SugarjaneLLC
"NTA. I think because of her past ties to Maddie's mom, your MIL sees Maddie as one of her own."
"That would explain why she's sticking up for Maddie."
"Maddie was in the wrong."
"Someone needed to shut her up, and since no one else was doing it, you needed to do it." ~ Deep-Okra1461
"NTA - They're mad at you for making waves, but what Maddie was saying is objectively mean and rude.'
"You just don't say those types of things to a bride."
"Tensions are high, and she knew what she was doing and relied on social pressure to keep you quiet."
"Too bad for her that doesn't work once someone hits their limit."
"Unless your MIL had a similar talk with Maddie about making inappropriate jokes, that's totally unfair." ~ FlaxFox
"NTA, it seems like Maddie is ready to get into dangerous antics to get your husband back or come onto your husband."
"Maddie had her shot, and it didn't work out."
"She needs to get over the past." ~ Fun-Competition8210
"NTA - She knew what she was doing, and putting her on blast was called for."
"Talk to your fiancé about the situation and point out all of the 'jokes' and turn them around to where he can understand it."
"Imagine an ex-boyfriend of mine came to the rehearsal and kept commenting on how we were a couple and how magical it was and so on."
"How would he feel about the wedding going forward?"
"I bet not magical."
"This is your and your fiancés' day, and anyone who wants to tarnish it shouldn't be invited."
"With the amount of money that people spend on weddings, anything that could possibly ruin the moment should be avoided."
"Including salty friends and family."
"Good luck." ~ Complete_Gap_9798
"NTA. Tell your MIL that Maddie is the rude one who made stupid remarks and has upset you, so she is the one who should apologize and that you expect one from her (MIL) too for calling you rude when all you did was a much-called-for reminder of decency." ~ Tasty-Dust9501
"NTA. But I don't understand why BIL is upset with you."
"I mean, she was gushing over the idea of herself being the bride to his younger brother, and he's not upset with her but believes you were the rude one?!" ~ redsoxx1996
"Aww HELLLLLLL no!!!"
"Firstly, I pity the BIL, who clearly has a wife that doesn't love him."
"I might chalk up his facial expressions to 'Wait...how did I miss this?'"
"Because CLEARLY she's got the warmies for your hubs."
"As for YOU?"
"Girl, that was the LEAST you could have said!"
"MIL can get bent."
"You owe Maddie NOTHING - and I'm glad that your hubs (CONGRATS by the way) is supporting you... AS HE SHOULD."
"Best to you!! NTA." ~ ladyredcyn
Reddit is with you, OP.
Maddie's behavior is outrageous.
It was your special day, and her comments were ruining it.
Maybe your husband should have a serious sit-down with his family and discuss the situation.
You did nothing wrong.
Good luck and Congratulations!!!
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp