It is 2025, and some parents still consider conversion therapy an option for gay teens.
This thought process has led to a lot of heartache for a lot of families.
Not all couples see eye to eye on the matter.
A husband found himself in a personal dilemma regarding his wife's reaction to their son's sexuality; so he turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subreddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However, there are no required voting acronyms—only suggested ones—and no official final judgment declared.
Redditor Stunning-Mud9227 asked:
"WIBTA to divorce my wife after she said she wanted to send our son to a conversion camp?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"So, this is a pretty heavy situation, and I'm really confused and disgusted, not gonna lie, cause I never thought my wife was like this."
"My wife (44 F[emale) and I (45 M[ale]) have been married for 14 years."
"We have two kids, a 16-year-old son (let's call him Noah) and a 12-year-old daughter."
"We've had our fair share of disagreements over the years, of course, but things have generally been smooth between us."
"Now, for the context, Noah came out as gay about a year ago."
"It was a surprise, and as hard as it was to accept, I love my kids more than anything and just want their happiness."
"My wife visibly didn't take it well, though."
"She was upset and seemed to go through a grieving period where she didn't really talk about it."
"I tried to support Noah in every way I could, telling him that I loved him no matter what, etc."
"My wife, though… I could tell she wasn't on the same page."
"She would say things like 'this is just a phase' or 'he needs help,' but I brushed it off as her needing time."
"Fast forward to last week, and we were having a conversation about Noah's future."
"Out of nowhere, my wife casually mentions that she's been looking into 'conversion therapy camps' and thinks it might be the right solution."
"She said that Noah isn't truly gay, that he just 'hasn't been shown the right path' and that this could 'fix him.'"
"My blood ran cold; obviously, I was in shock."
"I immediately told her I didn't agree and that this was not something I could support (duh)."
"She got upset and said I was enabling Noah's 'confusion' and that if I really cared about him, I would help him 'get better.'"
"WTF is wrong with her?"
"She was persistent, and no matter how much I tried to explain that conversion therapy is harmful (like I know those kids get abused, and often end up either traumatized or harming themselves), and that I would never send our son to something like that, she wouldn't back down."
"If I'm being 100% honest, I don't even think I love her anymore."
"The fact that she could be so heartless disgusts me."
"I know being gay is not easy, and people like her just make it even harder."
"I'm considering staying, only for our daughter's sake, but would it be ok if it means hurting my son?"
"It feels like a betrayal to Noah."
"I just don't think I can keep living with someone who thinks this is okay."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So... AITAH?"
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was NOT the A**hole here.
"NTA 100%."
"Noah is not broken; there is nothing to fix."
"Those conversion camps are hell on earth, and any parent who wants to send their child to one doesn't deserve to be a parent."
"Make sure you include it in the conditions of custody that it is absolutely not permitted - depending on where you are located, it might even be grounds to go for full custody."
"Buckle up, OP - your fight for your children's rights and wellbeing is just beginning." ~ CollywobblesMumma
"I would actually talk to a divorce lawyer and tell them you fear your wife doing this and ask how you can protect your kids."
"Play nice for now and then drop the hammer."
"NTA not one bit, you keep protecting your kids." ~ CuriousPenguinSocks
"Another option... see if Noah can be an exchange student. Seriously."
"That would get him away in another country for a full school year."
"Start checking into this for the 2nd semester."
"Tell your wife it would 'toughen him up' to be away from her."
"She's a bigot, use that to push buttons and get your son to travel far away."
"It would keep him safe while you go through the divorce courts." ~ maroongrad
"This is the way."
"While he is gone, get your ducks in a row for the divorce."
"The court (assuming US) will consider his opinion for custody, so by the time it all settles, you will likely have full custody, and he will be nearly 18 anyway."
"He's not broken."
"He doesn't need fixing."
"It's not a phase."
"What he needs is love and safety."
"You got this." ~rothase2
"I agree with this!"
"Also, OP, even if you think that sacrificing Noah and staying for your daughter is an option, you will be damaging her - she will see what happens to him and be in an environment where she thinks that is ok."
"NTA for now, but huge YTA if you don't address this." ~ Living-Ad8963
"You need to divorce her; you need the kids to understand why you are divorcing her."
"Your daughter, too."
"She wants to hurt your son."
"That's what she wants."
"And that's something your kids need to know because it speaks to abusive intent."
"If she's ok with abusing your son, she may feel that abusive responses to your daughter's behavior may be ok too, as your daughter goes through puberty, starts dating, etc."
"There are times when the reasons for a divorce should not be shared with the kids. But this is not one of them because the reason is a desire on the part of one parent to hurt a child."
"That parent who is willing to hurt one child cannot be trusted with any child, and the children need to be warned." ~ Boeing367-80
"Every time I've read about conversion camps, I remember Elan School."
"It's not the same, but it shows how cruel people can be."
"The same people who run those camps."
"OP needs to divorce his wife."
"She's willing to have a traumatized child (needless to say, maybe dead) rather than accept him."
"Disgusting AF. NTA." ~ Electronic-Drink559
"Conversion therapy camps should be illegal (they are in some states)."
"They are child abuse, 100%."
"Your wife will destroy your son if you don't do something."
"He made the brave decision to come out, and she wants to torture him because she can't accept it."
"You would be TA 10000% if you don't get him away from her." ~ AdAccomplished6870
"NTA. Send her to science camp."
"Maybe they can fix her brain."
"Or try that other famous path."
"If sexuality is a learned trait, she could prove to your son how it's possible to change one's sexuality."
"She only must become a lesbian."
"Not forever."
"Just a few years to prove her stance." ~yhaensch
"Staying for your daughter's sake!!!! WTF?!??"
"What about your SON?!?!"
"NTA!!! Divorce her and get full custody immediately!!!"
"Of both kids."
"Tell the judge you fear crazy pants will turn your daughter against your son and raise her to be a bigot like her."
"Also, if you get any of her nonsense in writing (get it in text), save it!"
"Don't tell her you're going to use it in court."
"Conversion camps should be illegal."
"It's so disgusting." ~ throwitaway3857
"NTA. Thank you for actually caring about your kids."
"My honest opinion is to talk to a lawyer immediately."
"You need to divorce her and go after full custody."
"She clearly isn't a good mom, and both of your kids deserve better."
"Noah especially needs you right now."
"Speaking from experience, it's not easy being a teenager and part of the LGBTQ+ community, especially when you know your parents don't accept you."
"Keep being the kind and loving parent."
"Your kids will thank you." ~ REDDIT
"I want to start a conversion camp where I put every penny I'm given by these parents into a savings account the child inherits when they're 18 so they can get the f**k out of there."
"While they're at camp, they can be free to be whoever the hell they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone else, so they can make some real-life long friends and feel accepted. NTA."
"I can't even begin to imagine doing that to my daughter."
"I just do not understand how or why it matters." ~ Flaky_Drag1826
"NTA, and try to get Noah away from her as soon as you can, before she forces him to this conversion camp."
"Noah needs to know that you will protect him and that you don't care who he loves, and hopefully, his sister feels the same and will want to protect her brother."
"I'm so sorry that you, and especially Noah, are in this situation." ~ Micojageo
"There are a lot of good documentaries out right now on streaming services about the 'troubled teen' industry."
"I would highly recommend she watch those before thinking those camps could ever fix someone."
"Those kids are tortured for purely existing, you're NTA for wanting to protect your child." ~ Majestic_Scarcity540
"You would only be the AH if you stay with someone who could be that hateful towards your child."
"You clearly love your children."
"Your number one priority needs to be ensuring she is not successful."
"Also, make sure you are verbally telling your son you love and support him no matter what." ~ captaintightpantzz
Reddit is 1000% with you, OP.
Noah needs your help, and you're giving it to him.
This is a serious situation.
Maybe therapy could be helpful, but a good lawyer could be just as helpful.
You're doing the right thing.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp