Children of divorced parents often find themselves splitting holidays. But what about when they become adults?
Is there any obligation to give equal time to each parent? And what about their spouse or their own children?
A husband whose wife is trying to juggle her divorced parents' demands turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Buckupaita asked:
"AITA For refusing to attend family events on my wife's side unless she stands up for herself?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My wife (35, female) and I (36, male) have been married for 4 years and have 2 kids—age 3 and 1. My wife's parents divorced when she was a teenager and both her mom and dad have since remarried."
"There is a lot of competition between her mom, dad, and stepmom in terms of 'family time'. Everything has to be equal."
"Meaning if we spend an afternoon with her mom, then we have to do the same thing with her dad and stepmom. Mom and stepmom especially put a lot of pressure on my wife and guilt trip her about it."
"My wife has a lot of trouble standing up for herself and saying 'no'. Before we had kids, this wasn't as big of a deal."
"If we had to attend 2-3 different Thanksgivings or Xmas gatherings, not a huge deal. I mean, it sucked, but it wasn't the end of the world."
"Now though, with 2 young kids, it's exhausting and I absolutely hate it."
"My wife and I have had numerous talks about her setting boundaries about this because I am at the end of my rope with it. The bickering and pressure is constant and the need to keep everything 'equal' essentially determines our entire non-work schedule."
"We had to attend 2 separate Easter events this Spring—we're not even religious—because we went to one with her mom, so we 'had' to do one with her dad and stepmom. After that, I told my wife I was done with this BS."
"I told her that she needs to stand up to her parents and start setting boundaries and saying 'no'. I told her I won't allow her parents to continue to dictate how we live our lives. I told her if she is incapable of doing this, then I will absolutely step in and tell them off."
"But she begged me not to do that because she doesn't want to ruffle feathers and promised she would do better. Of course, that didn't happen."
"We ended up having to run around to 3 separate places on Memorial Day weekend because of this same stuff. After we got home from the last stop, I told my wife I am done with this and will now pick and choose which things I want to go to."
"I won't stop her from going and I will stay home with one or both kids if she doesn't want to take them, but I'm done."
"Lo and behold, this past weekend she was talking to her mom and 4th of July came up. My father-in-law had already invited us to his house for a pool day and my wife told her mom about it."
"So, of course we have to do something with them that weekend as well. When my wife told me about this, I told her that I will not be attending both and I will choose if I want to attend either."
"My wife must have vented to her mom about this because a couple days later, I got a call from my wife's stepdad—the only sane person in this, really. He told me that he completely agrees with me and that he's talked with his wife numerous times about not pressuring my wife, but she doesn't listen either."
"He suggested that whenever his wife pressures my wife into keeping things 'equal', that he and I go golfing together instead. When I told my wife about this idea, she called me a jerk and told me I'm being unsupportive."
"Time spent with my side of the family is drastically smaller than the amount we spend with her side. Thankfully, my parents are not insane and feel bad for my wife's situation."
"But I do miss spending extended time with them over holidays rather than rushing from place to place to see everybody. We live about 20 minutes from both her mom and dad, but in opposite directions from our house. My parents live about 90 minutes away."
"This might shock you, but my in-laws' ability to be civil with each other in social settings is pretty limited. We do things separately for a reason."
"It's definitely come up during our multiple talks about this. I've gotten messages from my older brother expressing his frustration that all of our family events are now scheduled around when my wife has time between her family obligations."
"Or us showing up for only a couple hours because we have to be somewhere else. My wife got upset with him last Thanksgiving because we missed the meal that he hosted because we were running to too many places."
"Instead of leaving food out for us to heat up, he purposely made up one of those tinfoil swan to-go bags because he 'knew we wouldn't have time to actually stay and eat'."
The OP summed up their situation.
"My wife's parents are divorced and she gets a lot of pressure from both sides to keep their relationships 'equal' in terms of time spent together. I hate it and told my wife that I will not be attending every single thing that her mom and dad pressure her to do."
"Her stepdad and I now have a plan to go golfing together instead. I think I might be an a**hole for refusing to attend every family event my wife gets pressured into because she can't say no."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors unanimously declared the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA, but you two need to work on this to find a solution."
"Personally, the solution should be along the lines of telling everyone 'With two young kids, it is just not possible to keep running around to different households for events and holidays. We are finding we don't have time to establish our own traditions with the children because we are trying to "keep the peace" between you two'."
"'With this in mind, we will be alternating holidays, and choosing to skip some that we will want to keep to ourselves. Should we host, invitations will be extended to everyone, and we expect a civil gathering. If you don't feel you can contribute to that environment for the sake of the kids, then please RSVP "No." Thank you for understanding'."
"Your wife calling you unsupportive just reads as she needs someone to stand up for her because she doesn't want to do it for herself. Have a talk with your wife about how exhausting this is for you."
"Focus on wanting to spend more quiet time with her and the kids instead of not wanting to do things with her family."
"Let her know while your family has been understanding about this, she has been rushing you all around for the sake of 'fairness' in consideration to her family's needs, but has been so overwhelmed and flustered, your family has been getting the short end of the stick."
"If she truly wanted fairness, she would be considering their wants as well."
"I really empathize with you here. Both my husband and my parents are divorced, so holidays can be a mess."
"We finally set the boundary of 'You got Christmas/Thanksgiving/etc... last year, so this year we are doing it with *insert family*'. We got some guilt-trippy responses at first, but we stuck to our guns on this one, and it's been pretty smooth for the last six years or so." ~ Discount_Mithral
"Possibly hearing from a neutral third party that 'MA'AM, your mother and step-mother are making irrational demands, are doing the "but SHE got X so *I* should get X too" like a couple of kindergarteners, and apparently have more concern for shoring up their own egos or "beating" the other mom than they do for the strain this puts on your own family, WTAF‽‽' will make her see the light."
"Hell, I'd do what the kids of divorced parents USUALLY do—alternate holidays with each family. This year mom and stepdad get Thanksgiving and Easter, next year they get Xmas and 4th of July or whatever."
"And if they can't get down with THAT, then fine—NONE OF THEM gets to see you on ANY holiday—from now on you do all of them by yourselves at home or with friends, and you will do dinner with each of them once or twice a month, NO MORE." ~ OrigamiStormtrooper
"NTA. My parents divorced when I was two. I alternated holidays with them until I was an adult."
"Then I sometimes didn't spend a holiday with them so I could have my own traditions. My family also was just fine celebrating a holiday on a different day instead of the official calendar date."
"Nobody's going to die and the holiday isn't going to be less special if you celebrate the weekend before or after." ~ Spinnerofyarn
"I get the feeling that OP's wife is getting something out of giving into the demands. She complains but she won't let her husband speak up and put a stop to it. And she doesn't stop saying yes to everything either."
"IN FACT, she even goes so far as to TELL her mother she's going to see her father for July 4th. Why is she sharing that info‽‽ She bloody well KNOWS it's going to mean they get told to spend equal time with her mom. Then she goes and tells her mom about her husband not wanting to come over!"
"This woman has some serious enmeshment/codependency with her mom/stepmom and it is feeding her ego to be so 'selfless' for family. Or it's feeding some other drive. Bc obviously it's not bothering her enough to put a stop to it."
"I think OP has done enough. He's enforcing boundaries around his OWN time. He's not placing demands on his wife or trying to control her behaviour."
"He's simply telling her that he will no longer run himself ragged trying to attend all the things his wife keeps agreeing to. That's perfect. That's what a therapist would advise him to do."
"NTA. I think the best course of action is for OP to follow through. Hopefully his wife will see he's actually serious about sticking to his guns and she'll get tired of giving into every demand of her parents. Or she won't. But OP will be a whole lot happier." ~ Epsilon_and_Delta
Being the rope a tug-of-war between parents is difficult for a child. It should get better when they become adults.
At some point, OP's wife needs to be responsible for her own choices. Her parents aren't able to force her to run from place to place each holiday.
Setting his own boundaries sounds like the best thing OP can do.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp