Redditor Icy-Cantaloupe-4063 and his husband's relationship is widely accepted by family, with one exception.
The Original Poster's (OP's) niece has historically been homophobic and ignorant when it comes to her uncles.
A recent disaster has the OP's niece looking for support from her uncles, driving the OP to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) for advice.
He asked:
"AITA for letting my brother and family stay with me after a flooding but not my niece?"
He went on to explain.
"I [37-year-old Male] have been married to my husband [41-year-old Male] for 4 years."
"I came out my family as bi when I was 16, and from the very beginning, they were nothing but supportive, and to this day, almost my entire family accepts me as who I am."
"My niece [20-year-old Female) is the only exception."
"She is my brother's [43-year-old Male] daughter, and despite her parents showing no prejudices against the LGBTQ+ community, she doesn't make a secret of her homophobia."
"I don't know where her beliefs stem from, but the day I first introduced my husband/ then boyfriend to her family, she has been very hostile towards us (she was 14 at the time)."
"She refuses to speak to my husband, barely acknowledges us at family gatherings, and despite her father constantly chastising her, frequently uses the f-slur to refer to members of the LGBTQ+ community and calls same-sex relationships disgusting."
"Due to severe flooding, my brother and his family have been forced to evacuate their house."
"My husband and I have a guest room and a sofa bed in our living room, so when my brother asked we whether his family could stay at our place for a while…"
"…I told him that him, his wife, and their younger children [15-year-old Female, 12-year-old Male] were very welcome to stay as long as they needed to…"
"…but that we weren't comfortable letting his oldest daughter stay with us."
"He seemed to have been expecting that answer and told me that he understood my reasons."
"When he broke the news to his daughter, she was furious, asking where else she was going to stay and that she had nowhere else to go."
"From what I know, my brother offered to help her pay for a cheap hotel, but she doesn't want to dip into her savings because she doesn't work and she's been living with my brother rent-free."
"Apparently, she's been staying with a friend for a few days now, and she's been telling her mother how awful it is there."
"My brother is still supporting my decision, but his wife has started trying to convince me to let her eldest daughter move in."
"She's been pushing me to get over her comments because my niece is still 'young and naïve' and that she couldn't have known her actions would have major consequences."
"She's advising me to be the bigger person and not let my 'hard feelings' for her daughter stop me from helping a family member, because that would be an 'AH thing to do'."
"So AITA?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"NTA, she's living with the consequences of her horribleness by having to stay somewhere she doesn't like because she couldn't keep her mouth shut about her disgusting views on same-sex relationships."
"If I were you, I'd say that you're happy to let her stay as soon as she genuinely and honestly proves she no longer feels that way towards you and your husband."
"I would never let someone who disrespected me and my husband stay with us, family or not, unless they were literally about to be on the streets (which she isn't)."
"And even then, it would be the very, very last option." - hazeandgraze
"NTA"
"Oh, what her mother meant was, 'She didn't realize she would someday need the person she was dehumanizing.'"
"Tough sh*t, this is the 'find out' stage. Don't deny her this important life lesson." - Mindless-Locksmith76
"NTA"
"Classic example of 'f*ck around and find out'"
"Regarding your brother's family...I read a nice saying this week on Reddit:"
"'When 10 people and one Nazi are sitting together at a table, 11 Nazis are sitting together'"
"I would show your brother's wife the door to her daughter's hotel." - toffifeeandcoffee
"NTA"
"Your SIL is upset because you could only take in 4 people in an emergency. Even if you didn't have a reason, if you had just said you couldn't take in 5 people only 4 it would have been a NTA."
"But the 20-year-old does not get to be a bigot for six years and then expect to get help from you." - glom4ever
"NTA"
"She has been staying with a friend. No one needs to offer up free living just because a family member doesn't want to stay with said friend."
"Also, if it's "awful" there, she won't be happy staying with you either. She already rejected a paid-for hotel. On top of that, she's already judgmental AF."
"You can expect that she'll make snide remarks as she has in the past about your lifestyle choices, then double down on how your place sucks because it's not her room. Who wants to deal with that?"
"It's your house and you only have so much space and free food to give. Let her be mad, she already acts like an entitled snob." - offensivelypc
"because my niece is still "young and naïve" and that she couldn't have known her actions would have major consequences."
"NTA. It's been years and she hasn't changed her mind. She's old enough to k ow about consequences" - Slight-Bar-534
"NTA"
"Maybe your SIL can go join her daughter at a hotel somewhere..." - Elegant_Panic7858
"'She's advising me to be the bigger person and not let my 'hard feelings' for her daughter stop my from helping a family member, because that would be an 'AH thing to do'."
"This paragraph irks me beyond belief."
"It's not you who has 'hard feelings', it's your niece. Feelings of homophobia, bad manners and entitlement. Therefore, she should be the one dealing with those feelings of hers."
"Your SIL wants you to accept being bullied in your own home, simply because she never bothered to address her daughter's intolerance or behavior."
"And having to put up with it for weeks or even months until they can move back?"
"I would reverse this onto her and tell SIL 'You should be the bigger person, and instead of forcing me to have a bigot in my house…'"
"'…go to a hotel with your daughter so she won't be alone in her homophobia.'"
"'Your poor parenting should not stop you from helping a family member, me, by not forcing me to live with her opinions and yours.'"
"NTA, but SIL is the big one." - OrcaMum23
"NTA. You have a right to be treated with respect in your own home. Tell your brother that you will need to ask his wife to leave if she cannot respect your decision."
"It is obvious they did nothing to address the situation in the last six years, and I question why. Could it be his wife feels the same but knows not to voice it?" - Ok-Cauliflower-1388
"It appears your brother & SIL are very tolerant of their daughter being a bigot. She didn't raise herself & seems like her behavior is being enabled."
"It's your home, you can exclude anyone you want. Honestly, I'm confused why they would even think to ask you."
"NTA" - Alarming_Reply_6286
"NTA"
"Given how she behaved in the past, I doubt your niece can be civil to you in your home. And certainly you and your husband don't have to put up with disrespect in your own home."
"Guests are guests, and they certainly can't make claims, They can only thank you for the hospitality." - 000-Hotaru_Tomoe
"This a classic case of Actions met consequences."
"Your SIL is correct that her daughter couldn't have known that she would need you one day, but that's not really the point is it."
"Her daughter is homophobic, and you are absolutely allowed to set boundaries about who is allowed in your house!" - meeeee01
"NTA. There's enough bigotry in the world without inviting it into your home. Your niece is simply being inconvenienced by her beliefs, there's no need for you to suffer for them." - cinekat
"NTA"
"'My niece [20-year-old Female] is the only exception."
"She is my brother's [43-year-old Male] daughter and despite her parents showing no prejudices against the LGBTQ+ community, she doesn't make a secret of her homophobia."
"You do not have to take someone into your home who has such a problem with your orientation."
"'She's been pushing me to get over her comments because my niece is still 'young and naïve' and that she couldn't have known her actions would have major consequences.'"
"F*ck that. She is 20. Do not budge." - Amar_Akbar_Anthony20
"SIL is an AH. She is not concerned about consequences to the real victims, OP and his partner, but to her brat, bigot daughter who has to pay for her own lodging at age 20."
"Those are not consequences. There are 20-year-olds who live on their own and pay their own bills. Here the brat's mother is willing to subsidize her living costs." - rshni67
What goes around comes around.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp