Not all blood is thicker than water.
Some family members are more rude and cruel than strangers.
A person can only take so much abuse before they snap.
Then family can be changed forever.
Redditor No_Village1933 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback, so naturally, she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"AITA for telling my BIL to stop treating my husband like a child?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"So, I (48 F[emale]), my husband (49 M[ale]), and my daughter (16 F) attended my M[other]-I[n]-L[aw]'s birthday party."
"It was a large family gathering that included F[ather]-I[n]-L[aw], B[rother]-I[n]-L[aw]'s, S[ister]-I[n]L[aw]'s, uncles, aunts, nephews, and nieces."
"Now, there's this BIL (54 M) whom I shall name as Ken for this purpose, and he happened to be my husband's oldest brother."
"The thing about Ken is he has this constant habit of lecturing my husband."
"For example, he was questioning why my husband had bought a Korean car, going on that they're no good and he should have bought a Japanese or German one instead."
"And other things like, 'Why on earth did you buy this jacket and jumper? They don't suit you at all. Have you bought gifts for Mother? They better not be some cheap stuff that you didn't put any thought into."
"At first, I chalk this up as an older brother looking out for his younger brother, but then the tone and words he used seem overbearing."
"Not even my husband's mother and father nagged him like this, at least not in front of others."
"And as I've learned, Ken only targets my husband and doesn't boss his other siblings like that."
"My husband doesn't react too strongly when his oldest brother goes at him."
"He just nods along and says, 'Okay then.'"
"I mean, I have tried telling my husband that he should just tell his big brother to lay off him already."
"Anyway, here comes the issue... we were having dinner at the table, talking about any random topics that came to mind."
"One of my SILs was asking if we had made any holiday plans."
"My husband mentioned that we are going on a trip to the Maldives soon."
"And of course, Ken butted in."
"He was like, 'Oh really, so who organized this trip? Don't tell me that your wife did everything for you.'"
"I jumped in and pointed out that my husband had sorted out our trip."
"Then he questioned my husband, Are your passports up to date? Have you checked if you need visas? etc.'"
"And after my husband answered everything, he said, 'Wow, good boy, you're stepping up.'"
"Honestly, I was pretty peeved about this and thought this could not go on forever."
"As soon as Ken left to go to the bathroom, I made an excuse to leave the dining room and waited outside for him."
"When he came back out, I spoke with him. "
"I told him as nicely as I could, 'You need to stop treating my husband like he's a kid. And show him some respect.'"
"Let's just say Ken didn't like the way I confronted him."
"At first, he acted all confused and in denial, saying he wasn't disrespecting my husband."
"I kept insisting that he was."
"Once he reacted aggressively, 'Who the hell do you think you are? What's it got to do with you?'"
"That's when I finally lost my cool."
"The commotion obviously got heard, and we had to get split up."
"It made the rest of the birthday party awkward after that."
"My other BIL and the SILs were saying to me that it shouldn't be my place to speak on my husband's behalf."
"And if he feels discomfort over what Ken said to him, he should be the one speaking up."
The OP was left to wonder:
"With all things considered, AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA at all."
"Ken sounds super overbearing, and honestly, it's weird that he only targets your husband like that."
"I get that some people think 'it's a sibling thing,' but there's a line between teasing and just being straight-up disrespectful, especially in front of everyone."
"If your husband isn't comfortable standing up for himself, it makes sense that you'd want to step in, no one wants to watch their partner get talked down to like a child."
"Yeah, maybe it would've been better if your husband said something himself, but sometimes people just get used to that dynamic and don't realize how bad it looks from the outside."
"You were just trying to have his back."
"If Ken can dish it out, he should be able to handle being called out." ~ sikandarmirza
"NTA, Ken sounds like a complete annoyance, and I'm not too sure why he feels the need to single out your husband the way he does constantly. Siblings do have a certain way of being with each other and there comes a point where he's just being disrespectful, your husband should stand up for himself." ~ mileyxmorax
"NTA. Who do you think you are? HIS WIFE."
"THAT IS WHO YOU ARE."
"However, you may be one if your husband has previously asked you not to say anything."
"I think you need to have a frank conversation with your husband about how he feels about Ken's treatment of him and why he's never shut his brother down." ~ Malphas43
"NTA."
"'Who the hell do you think you are?'"
"'What's it got to do with you?'"
"Aren't these the questions he should be asking himself?"
"Your BIL needs to f**k off and learn how to curb the superiority complex."
"You're all over 40."
"In the future call him out publicly."
"Every. Single. Time."
"You and your husband share a life so therefore it's got everything to do with you and nothing to do with him." ~ MadamMim88
"NTA. It would have been more effective from your husband but Ken needed to hear it."
"And you tried to tell him privately."
"You weren't the one making the scene."
"Next time you are together tell him you are sorry there was a scene and you'll try to understand this is how he prefers to communicate so you'll respect that by communicating with him the same way."
"And then do it."
"When he makes snarky comments at your husband, give a little chuckle and make one right back."
"If anyone says anything you just look at them blankly and tell them you're communicating with Ken in his preferred manner and ask if they would prefer Ken and yourself speak to others differently."
"But I'm petty." ~ angel2hi
"NTA... It's absolutely your place to defend your husband if he's being mistreated."
"His family don't set the rules for your family. Let them know this behavior won't be tolerated."
"Don't apologize and don't back down." ~ RoyallyOakie
"NTA. I wouldn't tolerate my S[ignificant] O[ther] that way either."
"He's a grown man, not a child, and his brother needs to stop treating him that way."
"You were actually much nicer than I would have been, I likely would have made a scene at the table." ~ RandoGenericUserName
"NTA at all and I'm pretty sure if the females were being lambasted around the table they'd want their partners to defend them."
"F**k the BIL and f**k the rest of them that says it wasn't your place."
"Yes, your hubby needs to open his mouth and be 1000% direct cos him allowing them to steamroll him IS a problem, but you're NTA."
"Kudos to you babe for protecting your man." ~ Enough-Owl-4301
"NTA. It is your place to stand up for your husband."
"Ken sounds like he's a jerk." ~ quirkytypeofteacher
"NTA - regardless of how your husband feels about it, you also have a right to say 'I am not comfortable when you talk to my husband like this, he is a grown man and my life partner.'"
"'If you can't speak to him with respect while I'm around, we're going to have a problem.'"
"Because when he treats your husband like a child, he's also disrespecting your choice to marry him."
"He thinks you've made a bad choice because he thinks your husband isn't capable of looking after himself."
"Depending on the family dynamic and history, your husband may blame himself when he doesn't live up to his brother's standards and may be seeking his approval."
"He may have accepted being talked down to, and think it's worth it for the feeling of accomplishment he gets on the rare occasions he's approved of."
"It's not a healthy dynamic, but keep the possibility in mind when talking to your husband about this. He may think he deserves the way he's treated."
"Probably worth talking to your husband again and explaining that your BIL isn't just nagging at him, he's also insulting you."
"And that listening to him rant unchallenged is uncomfortable and upsetting."
"It's great if it doesn't bother him, but it does bother you, and you'd appreciate his support in finding a solution that works for both of you." ~ princess_ferocious
"Not the a**hole at all."
"It's not wrong for you to defend your husband when he's constantly belittled, sibling or not."
"His other siblings don't get it because he's not lecturing them like this."
"Also maybe something happened when they were children and that's why your husband is his main target… so you might wanna ask him more about his childhood and sibling relationships." ~ REDDIT
"If it's not your place to speak on your husband's behalf, then it's not his brother's place to question his actions."
"Actually, it's not his brother's place even if it is your place."
"Your husband chose you... his brother wasn't his choice. NTA." ~ booch
"NTA. I have a brother who is exactly like Ken."
"Other people always do things wrong."
"His way is the right way to do things."
"He thinks he's being helpful by lecturing you."
"My wife doesn't say anything but I just let it go in one ear and out the other."
"It's tedious and boring." ~ floydfan
"NTA."
"Also tell Ken there is someone on the internet that wants to drive his Korean car up his a**." ~ chronichyjinx
"You are not the AH."
"You are his wife and Ken stepped over the line."
"Married couples should always have each other's backs even against family members."
"The rest of the family didn't like a woman standing up to this bully." ~ VeganProudHuman
Reddit is with you, OP.
You were standing up for your man.
Someone had to say something.
Hopefully, your husband will speak up next.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp