Perhaps the best thing about flying the coop, and getting your own place is that you are beholden to no one's rules, but your own.
As a result, you never need to worry about doing something against your mother or father's wishes, have to eat whatever they're having for lunch or dinner, and can wear clothes without worrying about what they might think of them.
Even so, whenever they come to visit you in your new home, you still might feel the need to impress them and do things their way for the brief time they spend with you.
The parents and brother of Redditor Feisty-Ladder-2378 recently paid an unannounced visit to her home.
Almost immediately upon their arrival, the original poster (OP)'s mother expressed her horror at what she was wearing, or rather what she wasn't wearing, and demanded she change.
The OP was willing to oblige, under one condition, which only made her mother, as well as her father and brother, all the angrier.
Wondering if she was out of line, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for saying that if I have to wear a bra at home so does my dad and brother?"
The OP explained why she felt that if she was going to adhere to her mother's demands, it was only fair that her father and brother did likewise.
"For starters, I (23 F[emale]) have the smallest chest in the family."
"My brother (26, M[ale]) and father (57, M) both are a bit on the heavier side, but I have never used that against them before, and it's never been a big issue."
"Last week, my parents and brother came over for a surprise visit, and I happened to forgo wearing a bra since it was just me at home loafing in my room and reading stuff."
"They wanted to stay a while and chat/ have tea in the apartment, so I didn't really see a reason to put on a bra still."
"Fast forward a while, and I notice my mom is giving me a look."
"I wasn't wearing anything particularly see-through or thin. It was just a regular graphic tee of my favorite hot sauce and some shorts."
"My mom told me to go change since it was inappropriate for me to be wearing 'so little' with men in the house."
"I told her politely at first that I didn't think it was anything weird, and I used to wear these exact clothes at our house all the time not that long ago, and she never said anything."
"But then she started going off on a tangent about how I wasn't little anymore, and I couldn't get away with having them just 'swinging around'."
"We argued a bit about it because I really can't be bothered to put on a bra during the weekend when I have no plans on going anywhere, but she kept insisting that I was being a terrible host and 'exposing myself'."
Things went south fast after her father and brother got involved.
"My dad and brother were also on her side (brother more reluctantly) and just told me to do what she wants, and it wasn't a big deal."
"I don't know why, but I just felt so done and stressed at this point that I snapped, 'If I have to wear a bra in my own house because of my chest, then so do dad and bro'."
"I could tell right away that my comment made my dad feel hurt, and I did feel immensely guilty afterward, but I still don't think I should have had to put on a bra for a surprise visit when they were going to leave soon anyways."
"My brother tells me that I took it too far and I should've just either ignored her or changed for that little while they were visiting."
"My mom also still refuses to talk to me until I apologize for my inappropriate comment."
"My dad was very vocally backing her up and enforcing this need to wear a bra behavior."
"He and my mom are just afraid that if I am not wearing a bra when they're around, I probably won't for other guests, and that makes me immodest."
"My brother just sided with them because he already gets on my mom's nerves enough for other reasons so he didn't want to draw any fire."
"My mom is the type of person who even wears bras to sleep, so to her, wearing one really isn't a big deal, and she often says that not wearing one will lead to a saggy chest in the future."
"Her comment wasn't really meant to be a jab at the men's ability to keep it in their pants. It's really just her own thoughts on the matter."
The OP was left to wonder...
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
The Reddit community unanimously agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for insisting her father and brother wear a bra if she was ordered to do so.
Everyone agreed that the OP's mother had absolutely no say in telling the OP what she could and couldn't do in her own home, even if some felt that the OP didn't need to bring her father and brother into the fray.
"To clarify."
"This is your house, and these are uninvited guests?"
"And an unannounced visit?"
"Your mother wanted to you go put a bra on, so you should remove yourself from uninvited guests, go into your room, put on a bra, and then are expected to entertain them?!?"
"To make the same people who came over unannounced feel comfortable with your braless-at your own home- chest?!?"
"Nope."
"NTA."- klurtin
"No more surprise visits!"
"Your mom will hate that a lot."
"Let her be angry - in her own place."
"Looks like your fam isn't good at boundaries, but you can still have them."
"The trick is to decide ahead of time how you will react to things so you don't get flustered."
"And if they won't drop the subject, it's time to say goodbye."
'Surprise visit?"
"'Now's a bad time! Can't let you in'."
"Criticism of your clothing choices?"
"'Not up for discussion, thanks'."
"Needling you to pick a fight?"
"'I'm not having this conversation with you."- RogueThneed
"NTA."
"You can't give me rules on MY body in MY house."
"Also really creeped out by the whole idea of women having to cover up their bodies for men in their family.'
"Fat shaming your dad/brother makes you a little of TA."- judgemental_turtle
"NTA."
"Your house, your boobs, your rules."
"It's simple as that."
"Plus, it's hella gross of your mom to sexualize your boobs to your dad and brother."
"If your dad's feelings are hurt, maybe he shouldn't backup someone sexualizing his kid in her own damn home."- ThatHellaHighHobbit
"NTA."
"Your mother is the primary AH here."
"She was wrong. It's your home, your body, and your decision."
"Your dad and brother supported her?"
"WTF?"
"You pointing out the hypocrisy, even using their breast size, was absolutely fair game."
"Don't let unannounced guests in."
"Don't invite your mom over."
"Tell her she can shove her stupid rules."
"I know, family's more difficult than that."
"But your mom is trying to control you in your own home."
"She does not deserve an apology, and while she's not talking to you (over something so stupid), at least you can go on living your best (bra-free!) life."- Tangerine_Bouquet
"Next time, go to your room and come back wearing a bra without a shirt."
"Mom can suck an egg with that sexist nonsense."
"NTA."- bayoublossoms
"Mom: your t*ts make either me uncomfortable or your dad or brother.'
"Who knows anymore."
"T*ts are scary even though I have had them my entire life."
"Brother: my t*ts are not big."
"Oh my feelings."
"Dad: my t*ts are not big."
"Oh my feelings."
"Mom again: your t*ts may distribute milk one day, burn the witch."- DogeCoinHope
"NTA."
'When will this mindset die already?'
'What was your mother worried about?"
"You're gonna turn your own father or brother on?"
"This needs to stop."
'Your house, your rules, let them be free!!!"- Travelcat67
Upon reading the comments, the OP returned to admit that she did regret using her father and brother to make her point and shared how she planned to handle the situation.
"Thank you for some of the comments also calling me out."
"I will definitely apologize to my brother and maybe my dad since it was unnecessary to my mom's level."
Had the OP invited her family to her home for dinner, no doubt she might have worried a bit more about her appearance.
But considering they showed up unannounced, she was under no obligation to change anything about her outfit.
Particularly as her mother seemed to feel this was a bigger issue than the hospitality the OP provided, despite their arriving unannounced and uninvited.
Something one can at least guess her family will never do again.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp