One aspect of parenting that is not talked about enough in everyday society is the fact that every couple has a number in their minds regarding how many children they are comfortable with having.
This number could be chosen because of how many kids they feel comfortable having in their home, how many kids they believe they can afford to support, or some other important reason.
But since we're talking about children and pregnancy here, and not the number of items you purchase at the store, sometimes how many kids a couple has does not go according to plan, pointed out the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Empty-Researcher-856 loved the two children he already had, and he had a vision for how he'd be able to provide for them, especially private school and college. When his wife wanted to have one more child, he was nervous but decided they could make it work.
But when it turned out his wife was pregnant with twins instead of just their third baby, the Original Poster (OP) was shocked to the point that he could not celebrate the announcement.
He asked the sub:
"AITAH for my reaction to finding out my wife's pregnant with twins?"
The OP put a lot of pressure on himself to financially support his children.
"My (37 Male) wife, Julie (35 Female), and I have two sons together (5 Male and 3 Male)."
"We're solid financially, but we both have intense jobs (I work 60ish hours a week). I already felt spread too thin with our sons and jobs, and I also want to make sure I can pay for my boys to go to private school and college."
"I didn't have much financial support growing up, and didn't want my kids to worry about money like I did."
"It all felt more doable with two kids, but Julie has always wanted three kids. She actually told me this when we first met in college before we were even dating. She's an only child, and so I think she likes the idea of a big family and her kids having siblings to play with."
The OP was very nervous when his wife wanted to have one more child.
"About a year ago, Julie raised the idea of trying for a third."
"With everything going on, I tried to convince her that two was the right number for our family. But it still meant a lot for Julie to have three."
"I did tell her I'd have three kids before we got married, and so I was ultimately willing to try for another after a lot of conversations."
"Julie, to her credit, left her job at a firm to do government work which reduced her salary but gives her more time to be there for the kids."
The OP was shocked when the truth of her pregnancy was revealed.
"Julie is now three months pregnant. We had an appointment yesterday and found out we're having twins."
"Both of us were shocked. I honestly wanted to scream, but she seemed thrilled."
"When we got into the car, Julie said I looked like I was going to cry. I expressed that I'm terrified and I genuinely don't know how I'm going to manage four kids. Three was already a stretch, and doubling our amount of children is very overwhelming."
"I told her that I feel like I should leave my job and find something less time-consuming, but I'd feel like a failure because I don't know if I'll be able to provide the life I always envisioned giving to my kids (i.e. private school, college paid for)."
"I basically am in a position where I feel like I need to choose between making sure my kids are financially solid or having close relationships with each of them."
"Julie said we'd figure it out, and I told her I just needed some time to think. She kept trying to talk through it with me right then, even though I told her to give me a minute."
The OP then said something that he didn't mean.
"Julie then asked if I was a little bit excited, and I snapped and said no."
"Julie got teary, said I was being a d**k, and asked how I couldn't be excited about our children. She said she's overwhelmed too, and that I hadn't even asked how she felt."
"I pointed out that she was the one who wanted to grow our family and had zero reservations about three, and so I didn't realize she was overwhelmed about the twins."
"Julie started crying and said I was being a jerk. She's been upset ever since and is staying away from me."
"I do think I was harsh at the moment and have tried to apologize and express that I want to support her in this. But I do think it was fair for me to be stressed at the moment under the circumstances, and I wish she could also see where I'm coming from."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that the news of having multiples could be overwhelming.
"I cried in the car when I left my OB's office after learning we were expecting twins. My husband was also visibly upset. It's normal to be overwhelmed by that news. Just about everyone who wasn't planning on twins in my Moms of Multiples group said the same; they cried too."
"For me, and my husband, it was a rollercoaster of emotions as we came to terms with it. We had nine-ish months to prepare. And we did get excited by the time they got here."
"Truth be told, it was hard for the first few months but listen…"
"You can make it. You will make it work, and you will fall in love with them and laugh at the trepidation you're having right now. I promise." - LizardCase
"When we found out we were expecting twins as our first child, we were both shocked and upset. It took us some time to process and honestly, it took me until probably 30 weeks to actually start to feel excited."
"OP, It's a normal reaction. Snapping at your wife wasn't the best move, but you apologized, and we all make mistakes. I can also see why she is upset though, because I'm sure she wants you to feel happy. Anyway, like others have said, rethink your priorities."
"My husband and I both could be working more and making more money, but right now, our kids need us, and we're able to take care of them, and that's all that matters. Private school and college are not the end-all-be-all."
"Being a plugged-in dad is way more important to your children in the long term, and is more important for their development! Good luck!" - E-as-in-elephant
"My wife and I had one kid, and then she found out she was pregnant again. I didn't mind so much because one more wouldn't have changed our life too much. I could keep the same house, same car. It wouldn't be too bad I thought."
"At the first sonogram when we learned we were having twins, I went full surrender cobra."
"This was going to be a complete upheaval. We'd need a bigger house, a van, everything was going to have to change. I stayed strong to not stress my wife out who also was very shocked knowing everything was going to have to change, but I was very worried."
"Five years later, everything is fine. It's incredible how you just make it work when push comes to shove. Some things will have to be sacrificed, and there's really no way around it. I also would have loved to send all my kids to college debt-free, but now that's not possible and when they get older they'll understand."
"I was able to go to school without a college fund, just like many other successful people did. I'll never be able to take long and expensive vacations with my wife, but we've made peace with that. As long as our kids are happy, we'll get by."
"Every Parent of Multiples freaks out at first. That's normal. But soon OP won't even be able to imagine life without them" - Brom0nk
"She probably just wanted to make sure that you were going to be by her side, and not resent her for it. Being pregnant makes a woman really vulnerable. That doesn't mean she handled this super well, either."
"I think y'all will figure things out just fine. No matter what, your kids will grow up with two folks who love them. That's worth more than some big private school education, if it comes down to it." - bigfatkitty2006
"NAH. Honestly, this is the kind of news that kind of scrambled rationality a little bit. Was there a way to communicate this better? Sure. But you were in a panic. She was also excited and wanted to share that with you, and I get her being upset."
"I would apologize to her and tell her that you are excited to meet these babies and raise them with her. And more gently reiterate that while that is true, you ARE scared and want to talk to her about how you guys are going to handle this change." - AnxiousTelephone2997
Others agreed and urged the OP to rethink some of his priorities.
"It may be time to rethink your goals, OP. Do your kids really need 12 years of private schools, or do you want to save your money for academic high schools?"
"And is never making your kids never worry about money a good idea? Because at least some of them are going to have to worry about money as adults. Of course, too much worry about money is very bad for kids and makes it difficult for them to concentrate on scholastic achievements, but that doesn't mean they need to regard money worries as something that happens to other people."
"Because it will happen to them, better they should both be aware of the existence of both money worries and strategies for coping with money worries." - Echo-Azure
"I grew up wondering how we were going to eat poor. As such, we made sure our kids have never had to worry about money."
"It's exhausting. They're so spoiled and they don't think twice about breaking things like $70 Xbox controllers, because we have money, right? They're 12 and six, and are having to now learn the hard way that just because I could replace their controllers every month when they break them, it doesn't mean I will."
"Kids don't need private school and paid for college. They need present parents and to not have to worry about food, shelter, and bills." - Gone_Green2007
"It's not going to hurt your kids' futures if they go to public school."
"Take it from me, OP. I've been in private, online, home, and public schooling, and public was significantly better on most fronts. Private school gave me a very s**tty false education (that I'm still having to UN-learn) and caused me to be really out of touch with reality and society in some bad ways and resulted in many cringey social blunders."
"Public school exposed me to much more diversity and developed my confidence and drastically improved my social skills."
"I could go on and on about pros and cons of the different types. A price tag does not equal quality. There are other kinds of costs and gains to consider. Your kids will benefit so much more from having you engaged in their lives than they would ever get out of private school." - MeisterBeans
"Dude, you are putting too much pressure on yourself. Your kids do not need fancy private schools. It's a nice thing, but it doesn't guarantee anything. I went to private school and I am now a CNA. My brothers went to public school. Both of them finished valedictorian at university and have well-paying (mid-six-figures) jobs." - lynypixie
"I'm taking a walk while my four teens bounce around my house. I read the title and had a good laugh, and barely needed to read the post."
"Yeah, your reaction was s**t. But when my wife called me at work to tell me she was pregnant with our fourth, I pretty much hung up on her."
"Bro. You won't regret it for a moment. Chill. Don't overreact to your childhood, as the kids will make their way just fine with whatever support you're able to provide."
"As cliche as it sounds, they remember the love you provided way more than the money and sh*t." - Consistent-Tip-7819
While the subReddit completely understood the shock the OP was feeling and how he felt like all of his plans were shifting by going from two to four children, they also encouraged him to take a breath and think about what was really important: a happy life with his wife and children.
Undeniably, the children would remember the time they had with their parents far more than they'd remember the school system they went through, and the parents would soon be so excited about their new arrivals that the initial shock would wear off.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp