Sometimes, marrying into a person's family is one of the most difficult things to do.
A person may love their spouse to death, but their family may be impossible to deal with.
This makes special occasions, like holidays, very stressful to plan.
But more often than not, boundaries have to be secured.
A deleted Redditor wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback, so naturally, they came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
They asked:
"AITA for expecting my wife to visit my family for the holidays?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My wife (32)and I (33) married over 2 years ago, and she is still salty about what my parents wore to the wedding."
"My dad wore jeans with a blazer, and my mom wore a Patagonia-like vest under a silk shirt that was clearly visible and Crocs."
"I understand that was definitely not wedding-appropriate attire, and I did tell them what to wear; however, having dealt with them my entire life, I cannot say I'm surprised."
"She says she is upset because our wedding photos were not nice to look at, and she never framed them."
"My dad also yelled at the waiter, which was bad, yes, but she didn't know until after the wedding, and my sister managed to get him under control, so it didn't impact the wedding."
"We fought about this for a few days after the end of the wedding."
"But it died down and we stopped discussing it partly because my parents live 7 hours away, so she never interacted with them after the wedding."
"She told me then she wasn't visiting my family, and I took it to mean that year, which was fine as the memory was too fresh, but she actually meant never."
"We had our son 8 months ago, and she refuses to come to see my parents for the holidays."
"I would understand if it was that she wasn't feeling well, but she is feeling amazing because she hiked for hours the previous weekend and wants to go skiing again this season."
"She basically just doesn't want to interact with my family."
"My parents are not easy to deal with."
"My dad is not friendly, and he is bitter from being unaccomplished, so that basically has left him with a miserable attitude."
"However, visiting once a year and sucking it up for a few hours a day when he hasn't actually blown up or made comments towards my wife beyond at the beginning when he said he doesn't like her profession and not to her face doesn't seem unreasonable for her to dislike him that much."
"But she refuses, and traveling with an 8-month-old is incredibly difficult."
"She is still breastfeeding him, but has some frozen milk built up and thinks I should accept her not wanting to visit my parents by either bringing the frozen milk to feed him for a few days, or I go alone."
"I tried to tell her it is really rude not to at least try to get along, and if there is a fight, she won't need to interact with them again, but she straight up refuses."
"I feel like I'm being made the a**hole for expecting her to do this, but speaking with colleagues and close friends, most have family they do not like and most do not like their I[n]-L[aw]s and still make an effort to at least go once a year but my wife says they ruined her wedding photos so she not visiting them makes them even."
The OP was left to wonder:
"Am I the a**hole?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP WAS the A**hole.
"YTA, My parents are miserable people."
"I told them if they gave my husband attitude or tried any of their manipulative bulls**t with him, I would cut them off so fast their heads would spin."
"That's how you're supposed to handle the situation."
"You're basically saying, 'Yeah, my parents are awful, but she just needs to suck it up for a couple of days a year.'"
"And that's a stupid way to live life."
"Stand up for your wife!"
"You married her and had a kid with her; she should come first."
"Go see your parents, and if they ask where she is, say that they are miserable people who owe her an apology and that you completely understand why she doesn't want to visit them."
"Basically, you need to grow a backbone."
"You're an adult with a family of your own at this point."
"Stop enabling their bad behavior just because it's easier to deal with." ~ Lighthouse_on_Mars
"Right!! Why can't parents suck it up and apologize and be nice long enough for a visit?"
"Huge YTA for not holding parents to any kind of standard." ~ Suzdg
"If there is any visit, it should be OP's parents travelling to them, staying in a hotel, and having a meal/meeting with them outside the home in a neutral, public environment where OP's wife can take the child and leave the situation the instant the parents do or say something unacceptable." ~ No-Assignment5538
"YTA- it isn't just about the wedding (which... wow that's another post entirely)."
"They're rude, off-putting, and seemingly very selfish people- and your dad throws tantrums."
"Your wife is a brand new mom, and they live 7 hours away."
"It is completely ABNORMAL in my opinion to expect her to travel like that, and be around awful people, while trying to breastfeed feed etc."
"You're being an awful new dad and a terrible husband."
"If your parents want to see you all so bad, they can travel 7 hours to you, and GET A HOTEL ROOM." ~ strangeloop414
"YTA -- for next gift giving occasion this year, pay for someone to Photoshop your parents out of the wedding photos and have them printed for her." ~ LlaputanLlama
"YTA. Your wife is dealing with 2 babies at the moment."
"Grow a spine."
"Your parents were incredibly disrespectful of your wife and your marriage by not dressing appropriately."
"You want your wife to 'visit once a year and sucking it up for a few hours a day, ' but your parents couldn't suck it up for your wedding???"
"Most parents are very happy to dress up for their kids' weddings."
"'My dad is not friendly, and he is bitter from being unaccomplished, so that basically has left him with a miserable attitude.'"
"Sounds like your wife has the self-respect to not be in the presence of someone who makes her uncomfortable."
"If you want to put up with him, that's your choice; she gets to make that choice too."
"You have to back your wife, dude, that's your family now, your parents are extended family."
"Your parents shouldn't expect to see her until they apologize for the disrespect and fix their attitudes." ~ GuessTurbulent9556
"So, let me make sure I understand."
"Your parents have shown disrespect for your wife."
"Traveling with an infant for 7 hours anywhere is 'incredibly difficult.'"
"You have tried to minimize and belittle her feelings."
"What have you and your parents done to try to make an obligatory visit more pleasant and agreeable for your wife?"
"It sounds like you are demanding she make all the sacrifices to avoid being 'really rude' to parents who have shown little respect or kindness to your wife. YTA." ~ BlatantEgg4314
"YTA. Asking her to spend the holidays with your mess of a family is a bridge too far." ~ castle_waffles
"So all they did was ruin her wedding photos… except that they also yelled at a waiter, but she didn't personally see that, so it's fine."
"Your dad is bitter and angry and unpleasant to be around, but he's never said anything bad to her... except for the time that he insulted her profession, but he didn't say it to her face, so what's the problem, right?"
"YTA. If you want to subject yourself to horrible people, then have at it; there's no reason she has to do the same." ~ Scary-Fix-5546
"Based on the info you have provided, YTA."
"Your parents sound rude, inconsiderate, ignorant, and demanding."
"Yet you want to subject your wife to their treatment."
"I don't even know your family, and yet I feel personally insulted at the thought of your mother wearing Crocs to your wedding."
"I don't blame your wife for not wanting to be around them." ~ AirportPrestigious
"YTA, your parents disrespected your wife and did it purposely, and ruined the wedding and the wedding photos, and you seriously expect her to interact with them."
"Divorce is in your future if you continue to try to force these people on your wife."
"If you are so indoctrinated and suffer from Stockholm syndrome for your parents, go alone and don't whine and complain about it; you are actively choosing to spend time with horribly toxic people over your wife and child." ~ MejahSabbat
"YTA. You keep adding more reasons why she would never want to have anything to do with them again, and then say 'but she can man up for a few hours' after a seven-hour drive with an infant... as if that's in any world reasonable."
"If you want to see your parents, then go."
"Don't expect her to put herself out there to someone who is bitter, angry, and resentful of her." ~ michelleinAZ
Reddit has some issues with your request, OP.
Your wife has made herself clear.
She is nursing a newborn.
Maybe in the future she'll tag along when things are less stressful.
But right now, she and your son are priority, not your parents' feelings.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp