Content Warning: Cheating, Sexually Transmitted Diseases
We've all heard of the Friend Code or the Sibling Code, in which we won't date someone our brother, sister, or friend previously dated, at least without talking to them first.
While most people are fairly open to honoring that, there are some people out there who feel so entitled to date whoever they want, they ruin important relationships in the process, cringed the users of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Extension-Simple7312 was in a relationship with the man who she thought was the love of her life, at least until she found out he was cheating on her, and again when she found out that she'd contracted an STD from him that he'd picked up during one of his affairs.
But when her sister decided to date the same man, despite her past history with him and mental health, the Original Poster (OP) decided to cut her sister out of her life, permanently.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for telling my sister she lost me the second she even considered dating my ex who gave me an STD and didn't tell me?"
The OP thought she was in a loving relationship... until she wasn't.
"I (28 Female) was with a guy called Jason (29 Male) when we were 20/21 years old."
"We broke up when I was 22 after I'd found out he had not only cheated on me, but also knew he had contracted an STD from sleeping around and didn't tell me. He had known about it, and he was told he needed to speak to any sexual partners because of the risks associated with this STD to fertility, and he said nothing."
"I remember when I told my family what had happened, they were all there to support me and my sister (27 Female) was one of them."
Fortunately, the OP was able to build a new life for herself.
"I did move on, and I met my husband a year after breaking up with Jason. And thankfully, I was able to get pregnant and we have a baby together."
"But I never forgot about the fact that Jason did what he did."
"Cheating was bad enough, but you can move on. The STD was where it became not only unforgivable, but I would have taken issue with anyone in my family even becoming friends with him after that point."
But then the OP had to say goodbye to a loved one.
"But then, three months ago, my sister asked me if I would be okay with her dating Jason."
"She told me she didn't want to lose me, but they had met again after several years, and she liked him and he'd changed."
"I walked away from my sister without saying a word, and she started dating Jason officially. Though when she came to me like she did and asked me like she did, I would guess they had been unofficial before that point and not just friendly."
"I have shut my sister out of my life, and she has not been allowed to come and meet my child."
"The rest of the family stands by me and what I decided, but they have not shut her out of their lives, which is totally fine and not an issue for me."
The OP's sister kept trying to regain access to her life.
"But my sister doesn't like that, and she has tried to get in touch with me several times and has cried and asked me to hear her out and to talk to her. The fact that I have run into her once since, and I ignored her. She was talking to me, but I acted like she was a ghost I couldn't see or hear."
"So she ambushed me at my house the other day and told me she doesn't want to lose me, and she'll break up with Jason if I stop ignoring her and we can go back to being sisters."
"I told her she lost me the second she even considered dating him. I told her I might not have known about it in that moment, but once I heard she wanted to date him, knowing what he did to me, it was over."
"She's crying about it now, and our family is refusing to hear her cries about it."
The OP assumed that more pressure was coming in the not-too-distant future.
"My baby sister (24) told me she's trying to get the rest of the family to confront me about it, but nobody will. She does think our sister is genuinely hurt about this, but she feels like it's her own fault."
"And I agree. But I know what I said to her might still be overly harsh because even thinking about it without acting on it would have led to this, which might be wrong of me."
"So I'm here to ask, AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some immediately argued against the sister's statement that the cheating ex had "changed."
"People who are bad people, cheaters, abusers, etc, have a charming and likable side. That is how they get their victims or partners."
"I am always amused when someone says, 'No, he's changed.' Has he? Or is he just showing you the side of him he wants you to see?"
"If he has changed, can the sister articulate how he has changed and what drove him to change? How has he made amends, or at least acknowledged the person he was?"
"In 99.999999% of the 'He's changed' cases, he has not changed at all; he is just in the love bombing stage. The person who believes he has changed almost always finds out the hard way that he is still a cheater, still selfish, still dishonest." - AdAccomplished6870
"It's possible but exceedingly rare for these kinds of people to genuinely change. Personally, I think if he had changed, he wouldn't have pursued the sister of someone he'd hurt the way he did."
"He'd be able to recognize how wrong his previous actions were. He'd know he didn't deserve forgiveness from his previous victims. He wouldn't want to risk hurting them ever again."
"In my opinion, this guy doesn't care about his previous victims. He doesn't care how much pain he's caused to the family again. He has not changed." - MykelMoney
"Out of all the available women in the world, he just happens to think the sister is the special one for him now? Bulls**t."
"People CAN change, particularly as they naturally mature from teens to adults. Granted, some don't, and a LOT of men take quite a while. But I would still consider my 20/21 year old self quite different from my 27/28 year old self."
"However, why of all the people in the world, the sister? They obviously always wanted to bang, I wonder if they didn't back then..." - ked145
"He has changed so much that he is happily perused and is staying in a relationship with someone, knowing that it is destroying her relationship with her family." - InternetTurbulent769
"Sister, whining voice: 'But he's chaaaaanged!'"
"Morgan Freeman voiceover: 'He had, in fact, not changed at all.'" - qwinflavour
Others simply reassured the OP that she was right to be upset about what her sister had done.
"The boyfriend placed OP in a situation of possible irreparable harm. In that situation, you ride and die with OP. It is forever and always 'on site' if you see the boyfriend. You don't actually have to fight, but you certainly don't give them a chance to explain how they changed."
"The boyfriend could become a priest, and those of us who know how to ride and die know he has not changed and does not deserve forgiveness."
"The sister will be his next victim, no doubt, but she has had intimate knowledge that I'm sure we don't even have, and what we have is enough to know the decisions she has made were grave mistakes." - Appropriate_Tie_8180
"He was with OP for almost two years, and it was OP finding out on her own about both STD and cheating basically at the same time. I give about the same amount of time or more because sister is delusionally entitled and in denial of basic facts and reality compared to OP, who legit had no clue what level of a piece of s**t he was while being 20-22 at the time."
"NTA. Both OP and the family are correct for handling this situation how they see fit, OP by cutting off and family by basically do, 'Well duh, what did you think was going to happen if you did that...'" - maywellflower
"NTA. I'm honestly confused about why she thought you would be okay with this? Also, who even wants to date their sibling's ex?! I'd never think to do that to my sister, nor would I want to." - CAgirl17
"NTA. Your sister seems to think that Jason is the issue, and if she gets rid of him, it'll undo the damage. The thing is that he isn't the problem. She is."
"She deliberately chose to date your ex, which in and of itself is weird and wrong, but she didn't just choose any ex. She decided to pick the guy who hurt you the most, who cheated, and who willingly gave you an STD, knowing it could cost you your chance at having children."
"All that is bad enough, but the fact that she crept about meeting him and began dating him without mentioning anything makes it worse."
"She didn't speak to you about it before anything happened to see how you'd feel, she basically went, 'Hey OP, you know that guy who broke your heart and jeopardised your health all so that he could bang other women? Well, I'm banging him now! We're totally a couple! Isn't it great? He's totally changed, so you're going to be cool with this, right?'"
"The damage was done the moment she decided to get involved with him in any way. She made it clear that he and his wandering penis were more important than you, your feelings, and her relationship with you. I have to ask, what do you think she expected with this? Is she normally this thick-headed and oblivious?" - Buttered_Crumpet09
"Definitely NTA."
"She knew what she was getting into. She saw how he treated you and supported you during that time. Just because he announces that he changed doesn't mean you want to be around him."
"Stick to your boundaries. I'm glad there were no underlying and long-lasting health issues from your time with him." - Deep_Rig_1820
As much as the sister wanted to have a relationship with the OP and her current "boyfriend," it was clear that trying to have her cake and eat it, too, was exactly what caused the cake to irreparably fall to the floor... and the five-second rule did not apply here.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp