Grief can have unexpected effects on people, and sometimes, they'll behave in ways that no one else saw coming.
But while grief comes in all shapes and sizes, one person's grieving process mustn't impact someone else's life, stressed the people in the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Temporary-Truth-1969's father had passed away two years prior, and her mother began dating about a year after that. While she was happy for her, she was not happy to hear of her mother's intimate activities with her new partner.
When her mother accused her of not being happy for her because of complaining about the noise, the Original Poster (OP) and her brother weren't sure what to do about it.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for telling my mom she can't share a room or a bed with her boyfriend in my home?"
The OP stopped visiting her mother when her mother wasn't welcoming to her boyfriend.
"When I (27 Female) was in college, I met my boyfriend, and we moved in together, sharing a place with some friends, after dating for a year."
"I was 19 when we met and 20 when we moved in together."
"We decided from that point onward to take turns spending Christmas with our families. But the first year we were supposed to see mine, my mom made it clear my boyfriend could not stay and that we weren't sharing a room or a bed in her house."
"My dad argued in favor of letting it happen since I was an adult and living with him already, but my mom said no."
"She hated that I wouldn't stay at their house then and instead booked an AirBnB."
"She said I should respect the rules of her house and I told her I was, but I didn't want to tell my boyfriend to be alone on the holidays, especially when his family had welcomed us together happily."
"After that, I made it clear there would be no coming to visit like that if I couldn't sleep with my boyfriend."
"My mom said it wasn't like we were married so she had every right to keep that rule."
But the OP's mother justified sleeping with her own boyfriend.
"Two years ago, my dad died, and for 11 months, my mom has been in a relationship with her boyfriend. They don't live together exactly but according to my brother, he was there most nights while he was still living there."
"My mom and brother aren't really talking right now. My brother could hear our mom and her boyfriend in bed every night, and he hated it, so he moved out. He's also 22 and had wanted to move out, but it gave him the push to move sooner."
"My mom was furious and demanded to know why he was leaving out of nowhere, and she freaked when my brother told her he was tired of hearing their activities."
"Our mom started off on him for not being happy for her that she found someone again after our dad died. She told him it was a very bad reason/excuse to move out and that we should be happy for her."
"My brother told her being happy for her was different than hearing her go at it with someone."
"She told him that was proof he wasn't happy for her."
"She acted like my brother told her to stay single forever when he said he was moving out because he didn't want to hear them. Maybe that's how she's taking it but it's so reasonable of him to not want to hear that. Her whole reaction to it was so weird and just gross."
"I don't know how to take it honestly. It's why it feels like some weird and twisted part of her wants us to hear."
"The other thing is she never even tried to deny they were loud. She just acted like not wanting to hear it meant he was unsupportive."
When she tried to visit the OP's house, the OP enforced the same rules for the bedroom.
"My mom seems to be missing my brother being around, and she told me she misses having her kids around her, so she wanted to visit for a week or two soon."
"She wanted to bring her boyfriend along, and I told her she can't share a room or a bed with him in my home. I told her I do not want to hear that."
"She got mad at me and said she's a grown woman and should be allowed her freedom."
"I told her she was alright denying it to me, and I wasn't even planning to have sex in her house."
"But it sounded like she doesn't care if we hear or not, and I'm not dealing with it. I also told her I wasn't going to reward her with sharing with her boyfriend when she has been so strict with me about it."
"My mom accused me of acting like a petty child."
"I'm not telling her how to live her life. I'm just making rules for what can and cannot happen in my house. She can pay for an AirBnB just like I did if she can't go a few days without."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some thought it sounded like the OP's mother was forcing her kids to move on by hearing her.
"NTA, OP."
"Seriously though, why would she want to bring her boyfriend over to her daughter's house, knowing well the daughter is not even over the dad's death yet?"
"And she didn't even care about the son hearing them having sex at home, which was the reason why he moved out." - Humanserikla
"Grief manifests in all kinds of ways, and some people get super weird about this kind of thing."
"My mother suggested that I didn't want her to be happy (even though I encouraged her to start dating again) because I was uncomfortable as a 15-year-old with having a strange man in my house ALL OF A SUDDEN EVERY DAY. I wasn't mad or anything; I just told her it made me a little uncomfortable, and she went off on me."
"I was happy for her. I just wasn't totally ready, and she wasn't ready to be patient with me." - ScreamingWaffle
"NTA, OP. I wish parents understood that even if their new partner is amazing and lovely, your kids still lose the whole idea of the family home. Now there's some other adult there all the time and you're never quite as comfortable as you were before." - Strange_Depth_5732
"Does that mean she wants to hear you have sex? Or her mother/father/elderly relative? Because I'm petty. I'd call a great aunt and have her ask to stay with my mom with her new beau and make sure they fake sex noises even if it's not real."
"This screams of extreme emotional immaturity, and it's so disgusting, it's giving me chills."
"If it were me, I'd AT LEAST put your mom in a lengthy timeout of no contact. No texts, no calls, no visits, for six months while the relationship calms down. Maybe they're just in that can't-keep-their-hands-off-of-each-other part of the relationship, and maybe she's overcompensating in her first relationship since her marriage, and if either of those are true, things should calm down in six months."
"But if she's still acting like this after that and is still this inconsiderate to you and your brother, she can just have her man and be happy with that." - YellowBrownClasses
"Your mom has her boyfriend over nearly every night and is apparently quite loud and can be heard clearly, so why would she miss having her kids around?"
"Sounds to me like she wants free holiday accommodation for two, not quality time with her kids."
"NTA. Your house, your rules." - No_cockroach
Others agreed and reassured the OP that setting her own rules was only fair.
"Your house, your rules. If she doesn't like it, she can rent an AirBnB." - Majestic_Daikon_1494
"NTA. The saying is, 'What goes around comes around.'"
"Your mom thinks it's, 'One rule for thee and another for me.'" - Blue_Green_1956
"My mom visited on a spur-of-the-moment trip. I had to work through it, and I worked the night shift at the time. She kept waking me up with banging pots and pans, and I lost my s**t."
"I told her I can't even count the number of times she came unglued on me as a small child for shutting a door too hard while she took an afternoon nap or something. I got beat for f**king having a sneezing attack. She got all blubbery when I told her I oughta see how she'd like that."
"It's just a couple of days without sex. Your mom needs to think about her priorities." - ElmoCamino
"My mom was staying here and complained it was cold. I told her to 'put on extra clothes.'"
"I remember being so cold at night as a kid, it was difficult to fall asleep. It wasn't that we didn't have the money to turn up the heat; my parents just were and are cheap."
"Now when my mom visits, every time she asks to turn up the heat, I die a little. NTA." - DBgirl83
"I legit have been no contact with my dad for years. A good chunk of it is for his hypocrisy in all things."
"Growing up, it was 'my house my rules,' but then whenever he came to visit me at my place, he tried to basically pull his version of 'your house, my rules' shenanigans. No thanks. Stay at your home, then." - boycey10802002
The subReddit was disgusted by the OP's mother's behavior and lack of consideration for her children. It was perfectly okay for her to move on after her late husband, to have a new relationship, and to enjoy everything that relationship had to offer.
But forcing her children to hear what they were doing was disrespectful to their father's memory, not to mention a lack of consent from the OP and her brother to hear that.
If the mother really wanted to visit, she needed to respect that the OP had house rules just like she had for her own, but more importantly, she needed to respect that sometimes certain things are better left between partners.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp