Let's be honest. There are lots of lies we tell children.
Sometimes it's for their entertainment... you know, Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy.
On occasion, we lie because it helps us out a little (thank you, Elf on the Shelf and "it's too spicy"), and other times we fib a bit to protect children from either hurt feelings or because the rational explanation doesn't quite do it for them.
But where does one draw the line when keeping information from children by way of a blatant lie?
A man on Reddit refuses to lie to his children about the identity of his wife's estranged daughter despite her request, so he turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit to seek feedback from fellow Redditors.
Redditor renstimpy86 asked:
"AITA for not wanting my wife's daughter to be introduced as a family friend?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"A few years ago, my wife and I got a letter from a woman claiming to be my wife's daughter, Laurel, who wanted to meet with her."
That was no big surprise.
"She'd told me that she'd given up a child for adoption when she was young, so I was expecting that this might happen."
But the next part shook OP.
"What I didn't expect was that the truth was there was never any adoption."
"She just left the baby with the father and bailed."
And evidently it wasn't the first time Laurel reached out.
"The worst thing about this is that when Laurel was 12, she wrote my wife begging for help."
"Her response was to write her the nastiest reply imaginable (I've since had a chance to read it) that basically blamed her for her problems and threatened her against contacting her again and 'ruining her family'"
OP was in disbelief.
"I couldn't believe it."
"Not only has she been lying this whole time, but she actively had contact and chose to abandon her a second time while we were married."
"This has all been an emotional dumpster fire, but that's an issue of its own."
But they've been slowly working through it.
"We've been in contact and building a relationship for the last few years."
"So much therapy."
"So far, we've kept this all away from our kids."
"At this point, it's been a few years, and there's interest in having everyone meet."
They don't all, however, want the children to know Laurel's true relationship to the family.
"Thing is, between my wife and Laurel, they've come to an 'agreement' to tell the kids and everyone else in the family that Laurel is a family friend."
And OP is not okay with it.
"Absolutely not. I'm sick of the lying."
"What they call each other is their own deal and I don't expect that to change, but I'm not lying anymore."
"I don't like lying to my kids as a policy, but lying to them about who's related to them and who isn't is dangerous."
"I only want them meeting if we can tell them the truth."
Now it's putting a strain on all relationships.
"Now I'm getting into it with my wife, Laurel, and my parents (the only outside people who know)."
"They say I should go along with it not for my wife's sake but for Laurel's."
"I understand why she would want that, but I don't think I care anymore."
"The kids need to know."
OP has offered the following explanation for why he thinks he might be the a**hole:
"I want to go against my wife and her daughter's wishes to tell my kids something neither of them are comfortable with that would alter both of their relationships with the kids forever."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole.
"NTA"
"The fallout from lying will be far worse than telling the truth upfront if she's ever found out."
"And you'll be just as guilty as her in your kids' eyes for lying by omission."
"If she's that ashamed then she shouldn't be bringing Laurel round the family." - RichSignal7022
"NTA"
"So your wife wants to continue this lie forever."
"Your kids are going to find out eventually. It's going to happen no matter how hard your wife protects her lie."
"Just doing a dna test from Ancestry will uncover it. A relative who knows can slip up."
"Does she want the kids to find out like that? They might hate her forever for it."
"This lie is going to cause an avalanche of issues and your children deserve to know this person is their sister."
"Their sister also deserves to know her siblings as siblings, not a generic friend."
"Hasn't your wife damaged her enough with the abandonment?"
"I can't imagine being the daughter who was treated this way."
"As for you, I don't think I could stay with a person capable of this. She's been lying to you and that's not forgivable to me."
"There is nothing to stop you from being honest with your own children.You don't have to keep the secret. "
"What is your wife going to do...divorce you? She would be doing you a favor."
"She isn't a good person. She rejected her own daughter twice."
"She had 30 years to correct this and she didn't."
"She wants to keep it going." - tatersprout
"NTA, I would chew her her a** out for treating her own daughter this way."
"If it were me, then she would 1. Apologize to the kid and beg her to forgive her for being this horrible 2. Acknowledge her as "our" daughter, much less hers 3. Give her a place to be a normal kid and do the best we can for her, and if she didn't do all three, then I'd file for divorce and try my best to get full custody of the kids."
"No one needs someone that toxic in their lives." TJ-Marian
"NTA"
"You shouldn't have to lie to your kids because your wife can't tell the truth about abandoning her daughter." - RaineMist
"NTA"
"The only thing I think you should allow is a watering down of the exact circumstances this daughter was abandoned."
"I think requiring her to stick to truth is a valid hill for you to die on."
"It's not just about what happened in the past. It's also about your wife being able to demonstrate now that she can be a person you're willing to stay with."
"Perhaps the story should be limited to 'here is my daughter, I had her when I was so young, naive, and not at all ready.'"
"If anyone presses her a bit, she could say 'yeah, I failed her badly but we're working on things now.'"
"But honestly, anyone (other than your kids) prying deeper is themselves being a nosy a**hole that needs to mind their business." - pukui7
"NTA your youngest is 17? So all your kids are pretty much adults."
"You have to tell them the truth, all of it. They deserve to know."
"I also think the only reason Laurel is going along with it is that she's so desperate for your wife's approval that she'll do anything she says."
"That's so manipulative of your wife who's already proven she's abusive towards her."
"I would talk to Laurel alone. Tell her you are telling the kids the truth and assure her she is now a part of your family no matter what your wife thinks."
"This is your kids' half sibling they deserve to know that." - Mommabroyles
"NTA"
"Wont your kids be so happy when they find out eventually!"
"Is she trying to sabotage other relationships because she's having this relationship forced onto her?"
"I think no relationship is better than a false relationship."
"Reality can suck but denying reality usually makes things worse (eventually)." - rlrlrlrlrlr
"Nta."
"You really want to stay with a woman like that?"
"It's not too late you seem like a normal put together man that has morals I'm sure you'll be okay." - Alternative-Gur-6208
"NTA."
"I would actually think about leaving her."
"I am surprised that the daughter still wanted to contact the 'mother.'"
"She is one of the worst person I am glad I will never meet." - tokingcircle
"lies lead to bad places."
"I tend to agree with you. NTA" - corgihuntress
"NTA. Does she even has a little sympathy for the kid?"
"It seems like the wife just bailed out and never wanted the kid again in her life."
"All those nasty words in the letter just show her real face, no remorse whatsoever."
"After all those years it's like now she remembered she has a child somewhere and still wants to cover it up." - justanormalgal22
"You are a really awesome person, OP."
"Lying is NEVER the right answer. NTA" - ike7177
"NTA- You should not support your wife's lies."
"You should not lie to your children."
"If your family is not at a point where you can be honest with each other, then the meeting should not go head." - Forced_Storm
According to his fellow Redditors, OP is right to stand firm on his position.
Hopefully, he and his wife can come to an agreement so the family can move on without having to carry any more lies.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp