Content Warning: Miscarriage
We've all heard of those families where the family members are a little too close for comfort.
But there's no understanding just how weird it is to see an overly close relationship between a man and his mother until you've seen it for yourself, cringed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Illustrious_Meet9002 had always thought her husband and mother-in-law were close, but when they got married and she got pregnant, their relationship really started to bother her.
When she miscarried her first baby and her husband turned to comfort his mother instead of her, the Original Poster (OP) decided not to share the experience with them again for her second baby.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for hiding my pregnancy from my husband and my mother-in-law (MIL)?"
The OP was becoming uncomfortable with her husband's relationship with his mom.
"I (25 Female) have been married to my husband (28 Male) for three years."
"My husband, Joel, and I met in college and got married very young. We have both always dreamed of having a big family, and I have always wanted to be a stay-at-home mother."
"Joel and his mom have always been close, but it wasn't until recently that I noticed how unsettling their relationship truly is."
"For starters, Joel's mom, Amy, has always been insanely protective over him. Although he is fully an adult man, Amy only refers to Joel as 'her baby boy.' Amy insisted on having the first dance with Joel at our wedding, and because she was paying for most of it, I let her have that but put my foot down when she suggested that she should wear a cream color dress as the mother of the groom."
"Amy lives in our neighborhood and has made a habit of showing up unannounced and inviting herself into all aspects of our lives."
But everything changed for the worse when the OP got pregnant.
"A few months ago, I found out that I was pregnant with our first baby, but just a few months in, I tragically lost the pregnancy."
"Before the miscarriage, Joel and I had been over the moon. Amy was so excited to be a grandmother, but some of her actions made me uncomfortable and angry."
"For starters, she insisted that she come to all of the appointments for the baby. When we first heard our baby's heartbeat, she jumped up out of her chair, snatched Joel's hands, and began to cry with excitement. Joel threw his arms around her, pointing out her 'grandbaby's heartbeat' while I was left sitting there on my own."
"Although it was still early in the pregnancy, Amy proposed throwing her own 'grand-baby shower' in order to get supplies for the baby to be kept at her house. I tried to shut this down, but Joel once again defended his mom."
"When I felt the first kicks and movement, she RAN over and nearly shoved my hand out of the way to try and feel."
"My final straw was after I lost the baby, I was devastated. Luckily, Amy was not over when I began noticing issues, and Joel and I were able to go to the hospital alone."
"But after calling his mom to tell her what was happening, Amy showed up at the hospital and cried so loudly, that Joel had to escort her out of the hospital and comfort her in her car. Once again, I was left there alone."
The OP couldn't look at her husband the same after that.
"This broke me. Although Joel has apologized profusely and said that he regrets leaving me, I have had a hard time finding forgiveness for that moment."
"I have to emphasize, other than his unusual relationship with his mother, our relationship has been nearly perfect."
"After the miscarriage though, I started sleeping in the guest room and taking more time for myself to sort out my thoughts and decide where to go from here."
"Everything was fine until a few months ago, I had a few too many glasses of wine at a friend's wedding and ended up spending the night back in our main bedroom."
"I started to notice the same familiar changes in my body from my first pregnancy, which terrified me. I finally took a test and stared at the little plus-sign in disbelief."
"Although I want to be a mother more than anything, I couldn't help but still feel the same feelings from my last pregnancy."
"Maybe it was the wrong choice, but I chose not to tell Joel right then. I booked an appointment and went to the doctor and found out that I was about six weeks pregnant already."
The OP still wasn't ready to tell Joel the news, or his mother.
"This is where I may be the a**hole. That appointment was about three months ago, and I still have not told Joel."
"I am now 18 weeks pregnant, and just starting showing more and I have taken to just wearing big sweatshirts and baggy clothes around the house. I have loved being pregnant and not having to share the spotlight with Amy."
"This week, I felt the first little flutters of the baby moving and didn't have to share it with anybody else."
"In just a few weeks, I can learn his or her gender, and not risk having to throw a grandbaby gender reveal for my MIL."
"Maybe most importantly, god forbid anything were to happen to the pregnancy again, I would rather handle it alone than have to deal with consoling her."
The OP wasn't sure what the future held for her and her baby.
"But now, I don't know where to go from here. Obviously, I can only keep this up for so long, but how do I explain to Joel that I have been hiding the pregnancy from him for months?"
"Should I just run away and start a new life (mostly kidding)?"
"Or, am I already in too deep so I might as well just keep hiding it for as long as possible and not have to share my moment with anyone else?"
"I love my husband and I don't want to leave him, but I don't know how I can save the situation and our marriage."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some said the OP should have a conversation with her husband, with ultimatums attached.
"So much to unpack here. Your reasons for hiding this pregnancy are understandable based on your recent loss. While I really don't think you are the AH, your MIL is the biggest AH, followed by your DH, I am really only concerned about you and I think you are YTA... to yourself."
"If you choose to stay with your husband, you need to address your issues. By retreating into yourself you are avoiding him and your marriage during a time when you should be working together to get stronger."
"You may be doing more damage than you realize, provided you want to stay with him. If he is your person, you will need him and if he is not you need to end your relationship sooner as opposed to later." - LeeAllen3
"This is time for a very serious conversation with your husband."
"You need to list everything you've written here, from wanting to wear (almost) white and stealing the first dance at your wedding, to barging into your appointments, to the emotionally incestuous way she acted like it was her baby, not yours."
"You need to give him an ultimatum. Create strong boundaries or risk losing you."
"Because she will take over your entire pregnancy. She will override your parenting decisions. She probably already has baby names picked out and will wail and cry until your husband caves in and you'll be left feeling like nothing more than a surrogate for his and his mother's baby." - Alien_lifeform_666
"Honestly, I would set him down tell him, and then tell him he has one choice get therapy for his strange over-dependence on his mother and step up to be who you and baby need or you will walk away."
"Explain exactly how you felt the first time. Explain you did not will not accept a repeat. If she can't be controlled and he keeps prioritizing her then he loses his wife and child." - romancereader1989
"When you need to tell Joel, you need to set down some rules. My brother was born, and no one knew my mother was pregnant because my grandmother was so overbearing when my sister was born."
"You don't have to have your mother-in-law at any of your appointments. You don't even need to accept Joel there. This may be his baby, but it's your pregnancy. When you tell Joel he can be on board with not involving his mother or he himself doesn't need to be involved. Choose."
"Congrats on your new baby. As someone who has had a stillbirth, I can not fathom having my partner abandoning me in those moments. In the future, please know you can bar anyone from any medical appointments." - Familiar_Treacle_233
"Your fears are completely valid, and it's clear that your past experience with your mother-in-law has deeply affected you. However, hiding the pregnancy from Joel could be harmful to your relationship."
"It's not easy, but it's better to have that conversation now rather than waiting until the pregnancy is impossible to hide."
"Joel needs to understand how you feel about his mother and how that has influenced your decision to keep the pregnancy a secret. If he loves you, he'll work to improve the situation and set healthy boundaries with his mother." - julialopesfit
"NTA. It's very well possible that he'll fly off the handle after discovering how long you've been hiding the pregnancy."
"If he does, I suggest you stop him in his tracks and ask him if he has any idea why you might have kept this information from everyone, including him. Then remind him of all the hurt you felt when his mother made both your wedding and your previous pregnancy all about her."
"Put your foot down and tell him this will not happen again. She will not be present at any of your hospital appointments, and you get to decide which information she is privy to."
"Also, another legitimate reason could be a miscarriage scare." - DynkoFromTheNorth
But most felt it was time for a separation and divorce, all kidding aside.
"NTA, but given your concerns, it would be wise if you could find a family member or a friend in another state to live with during this pregnancy."
"You might not wish to file for divorce, but once you give birth in the same state, you can be prevented from moving even so much as an hour away from hubby and MIL..."
"But if you relocate while you are pregnant, there is legally nothing they can do to force you to return."
"If you think there is any chance to save your marriage, you can use this time away to communicate with your husband that the only way your marriage can continue is if he moves to where you are - away from his mother. As unlikely as that may be..."
"If you do decide to file for divorce, be aware that in some states, you will not be able to actually finalize a divorce until after the child is born."
"But you will be able to file once you've established residency, and after the child is born, this will establish residency for your child as well so that they cannot force you to move back." - KrofftSurvivor
"Run away and start a new life (not kidding), divorce your husband. Even though he knows this is problem and he knows you have an issue, he hasn't been in individual counseling nor has he suggested couples counseling. He offered a halfhearted apology yet showed no sign or plan to change."
"OP, have you ever thought about why he hasn't noticed significant changes in you? OP, he's still up his mother's a** more than yours which is how he's not noticed in three whole months."
"You do not have a husband that's attentive and cares for you. You married a spineless mama's boy, who has forced you to deal with a deranged boy's mom. Escape now OP, and get a lawyer, ASAP."
"I would not tell him without an attorney present, file first that way you have the option to oppose or accept reconciliation. You have the right to set terms. Don't schedule with a therapist as others have suggested, schedule with a lawyer, quick." - astoldbybeja
"Has your husband not been working on cutting the umbilical cord to his mummy, since you moved into the guest bedroom? Does he not want to save your marriage?"
"Don't tell him about the baby yet. Sit him down and ask him why he keeps letting his mum take away your wife moments. Ask him what he will do if and when you are pregnant again. Go to couples counseling."
"In the meantime, plan your escape."
"Then, with plans in place, tell him about the baby. If he reverts to his mummy once again playing the lead role, then leave and have him served with divorce papers." - WolverineNo8799
"Where is Joel's father in all this? Amy's husband?"
"Unfortunately, you're an incubator. Joel and Amy are having an emotional incestuous 'affair.' He's a Mama's Boy. Very doubtful you can change Joel, and even if you tried, Amy will be super emotional and trigger Joel to come running. They've probably been this way for years."
"This will be your life. Amy will continue to grab the spotlight: insists on having a baby shower where she does everything to her taste, and at her house, that she's there for the birth, insisting she's the first one to hold her grandbaby, etc."
"Unless this sounds like something you can tolerate for the rest of your life, run. RUN."
"It will be easier to co-parent than live with them." - CatPerson88
"I am surprised you are still married to that mommy's boy. You are his second wife. His mommy is his first wife. I would leave and get physical distance from him and his invasive, overbearing, domineering mother."
"If you do stay with him, you both need to be doing individual and couples therapy. His mother must no longer be allowed to come to your home or medical appointments."
"You both need firm boundaries with her. He needs to put a stop to his mother's crossing of boundaries and needs to stop prioritizing her."
"Move out and only come back if he changes the toxic dynamic with mommy dearest. Your marriage is holding on by a thread. And you don't trust your husband because his behavior hasn't changed." - Neonpinx
"Maybe it would be better for you to separate from him. It sounds like he's always going to put you second and once your child arrives, you're never going to have any say about what happens with your own baby."
"MIL is going to insist on being in the delivery room and is going to snatch the baby away from you to 'bond with her grandbaby' as quickly and as often as she possibly can. Good luck trying to nurse. You're going to be TOLD you have to pump or give formula because she has every right to feed her grandchild."
"At this point, it goes one of two ways. 1. You leave and get a custody arrangement in place so he and his mom can share the baby on his weekends, or 2. you tell him and tell him firmly and point blank that he makes a choice right that moment: either he lays down firm boundaries with his mom, or you're moving out and doing option one."
"That's pretty much the only thing for you now. I don't blame you for having hidden it this time around."
"I have fertility issues and hid my last two miscarriages because I couldn't deal with soothing everyone else when I was broken. I decided long ago that it's between me and God until I see a doctor and everything is confirmed to be going well."
"I 100% understand and agree with your choice, but you're getting to the sticky part of the situation now. Tell him you kept quiet because you were scared of losing another baby and could not bear to break his heart again. Maybe that will soften the blow if you do stay. Good luck." - AccomplishedFace4534
"NTA. But honestly, you should get a divorce. You already know you're not going to get to enjoy your pregnancy once your MIL finds out, and you can't hide it forever."
"The thing is, this is going to be SO MUCH WORSE once you have the baby. MIL will be at your house all the time, telling you how to parent your child and taking over. You're going to watch Joel and his mommy enjoy all the 'firsts' and special parenting moments with your kid."
"Joel has proven he will always choose Mommy over you. Please document everything she's done and call a divorce attorney now. I hope you're not in a red state where you can't divorce while pregnant." - Bloodrayna
"If you leave the state while still pregnant and give birth somewhere else and establish residency there, then he can not go for full custody or even 50/50."
"If you have family in another state, I suggest you talk to them."
"This relationship won't survive, mainly because you are the side chick. you have been sleeping in another room for months and he is just okay with it." - Bakecrazy
"NTA, but... Is this how you want to live? Backseat to his mother every single time, and then what?"
"When she dies, would he change, or would the loss of his mother's distracting antics reveal that he wasn't any good either? And god, if she's this clingy now, she'll be constantly at you to HOLD and kiss on the baby, likely badgering at you about how you do diapering/ feeding/ comments on x y z)..."
"The stress isn't good for you or baby. I don't know your life situation, but unless Joel's about to change right now, I think it's clear he's a momma's boy. Weigh out the pros and cons to continuing this life with him (and her). You're at your happiest without them knowing you're pregnant... Think on that."
"I think what hurt to read the most here, was that loneliness. Every single time he ran off to comfort/cajole/ whatever the hell this situation is with his mother. There you were, alone to deal with it all. It doesn't have to be that way." - Midiala
"NTA, but do you really need your husband? I hate to say it, but it sounds like you are the third wheel with him and his mom."
"You sound like a strong and amazing woman. Don't settle. You don't deserve to take second place to his mom, especially with a new life to care for and love!" - JimmyCartersMama
The subReddit felt terrible for the OP and what she was going through, and they understood her turmoil and reasons for hiding her pregnancy, even from her husband.
For most, it didn't sound like a salvageable situation, and they believed it would be easier for the OP to start over now before the baby arrived. The OP deserved happiness, love, and support, and it didn't seem like she was going to get that with the current arrangement.















Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp