We've all done something behind someone's back once or twice in our lives.
Even if the nature of doing so isn't always duplicitous or spiteful, we do so in the hopes that someone, or sometimes many people don't catch wind of what we're doing.
As a result, when these people find out through a third or fourth party, their feelings tend to be more than a little hurt, no matter the circumstance.
In extreme cases, they might even feel the need to retaliate.
The sister-in-law (SIL) of Redditor aitanannyraise was quite jealous of someone they had as an employee.
So jealous, in fact, that the original poster (OP)'s SIL went behind their back in hopes of poaching this employee.
Upon learning this, the OP did what they felt was the only fair solution to keep their employee working for her.
An action which the OP's husband felt was "petty".
Worried that this might have been the case, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where they asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for offering my kids nanny more money/hours so she won't work for my SIL?"
The OP explained why they found themself going "an eye for an eye" with her SIL:
"My husband and I have 3 kids (10 months F[emale], 4 M[ale], 10 F[emale])."
"We currently have a nanny, Isabelle (22 F) 3 days a week."
"I have to say, Isabelle is f*cking amazing."
"She drives on field trips, she does homework with the kids, she handles play dates, she's the one adult my 10 year old likes, she's not dependent on screens, does art projects with the kids, she speaks 10 year old, and she's even teaching them how to cook and bake."
"They made mini quiches a few weeks ago."
"My oldest is doing state testing right now and wanted a fun activity with her friends."
"Isabelle suggested a spa day, and my daughter loved it."
"I set up a day for my 4-year-old to go home with his grandparents and let Isabelle turn our living room into a spa."
"She picked up my daughter, my niece, and 2 friends, brought them to our house, and did their hair and nails while they laid back and did face masks."
"I guess my niece was telling her mom how cool Isabelle is because my SIL texted Isabelle offering her a nanny position 4 days a week, matching whatever I pay her but for only 1 kid."
"Isabelle showed me the text and told me that she will have to think about it because the extra money would be nice."
"I told her if she promised to stay, next year I'd have her at 5 days a week with a $5 per hour raise."
"Isabelle turned my SIL down saying she had received a better offer and now she's telling my husband's family that I stole a nanny from her."
"They're upset that I outbid my SIL and gave Isabelle extra money and hours just so my SIL wouldn't get her."
"My husband said it was petty."
"AITA for offering Isabelle a raise and more hours so she doesn't work for my SIL?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community unanimously agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for giving Isabelle a raise so she wouldn't leave them to work for their SIL.
Everyone agreed that if anyone was being petty, it was the OP's SIL who went behind their back to try to steal Isabelle away from their family. They were simply thinking of their family by giving Isabelle the raise she clearly deserved.
"No, what's petty about that?"
"Your SIL tried to steal your nanny out from under you, which was sneaky, and you outbid here in order to retain your nanny's services."
"It was up to your nanny, which was the better deal."
"You like your nanny and are willing to pay for her services."
"That's just good sense, as long as you can afford it."
"NTA."- Regular_Boot_3540
"NTA."
"Every parent knows that a good babysitter or nanny is worth their weight in gold."
"Your SIL is the AH for trying to poach your nanny, and you fighting to keep her should be expected."
"It's rich that your SIL is accusing you of stealing a nanny when she tried to do the exact same thing."
"Just make sure you follow through with the promised raise etc."
"And if your husband has such an issue with it tell him he's responsible next time you need a new nanny/sitter."
"He can do all the interviewing and contacting references and background checks and negotiations for pay."
"It's not so easy as 'find a new nanny': your SIL knows this and tried to circumvent the process."-LaurelCrash
"NTA."
"But make sure you're paying her what she's worth without her getting another offer, she should be given raises yearly and bonuses for going above and beyond."
"She wasn't wrong to consider a better offer, although it's really sh*tty of SIL to try and poach your Nanny so she's TA."- Unique-Assumption619
"NTA."
"Your SIL tried to steal your nanny!"
"Your SIL could have come to you and the two of you could have approached Isabelle about caring for all four kids with you and SIL splitting Isabelle's pay."
"However, your SIL chose to attempt to poach your nanny, which is borderline unforgivable and now has the nerve to play the victim."
"Your SIL is the petty one!"
"She can pound sand!"- Consistent-Leopard71
"What - your SiL is mad at you because you 'stole' your nanny back?!"
"She's got some nerve that one."
"NTA but your SIL is a piece of work."- Conscious-Bar-1655
"NTA."
"So, your SIL tried to steal your nanny, unsuccessfully, and is now claiming you stole your own nanny?"
"The logic isn't logicing, and anyone should be able to see through her story."
"Curious why you want to wait to give her a raise though?"
"She's clearly worth it, and she has said she can use the money."- Level-Tangerine-8172
"NTA."
"If she's that good though, pay her what she's worth now."- 81optimus
"NTA."
"Pretty sure SIL tried to steal YOUR nanny."- LowBalance4404
"'She's telling my husband's family I stole a nanny from her'."
"You mean YOUR NANNY?"
"The one she was actively trying to steal from you?"
"NTA."- Prize_Mode2709
"NTA."
"Your SIL sounds insufferable."- MerryCatFancyThat
"NTA."
"This is pretty common tactic used by both an employee and employer when a good employee might go elsewhere."
"She could've denied your counteroffer and went to work with your SIL."
"Instead, she took you up on your counteroffer and decided to stick with you."
"This is how it's done in most of the corporate world, and how you get your desired pay increase."
"This is how you get that bag!"- jammiesonmyhammies
"NTA."
"I am not understanding others issues."
"She tried to steal you nanny."
"So you improved your nanny's current situation."- KittyC217
"Wait. So no one in your family is outraged that your SIL tried to steal your nanny, you know the one who has been working for you apparently quite some time?"
"Tell them to all go pound sand."- Tinkerpro
"I was going to say, maybe offer to have your niece come over a few afternoons and let Isabelle make some extra money and your kid would probably enjoy having a friend to play with."
"But your rat of a SIL went behind your back to try to steal your Nanny?"
"This is a mommy on mommy crime of the highest order, and from your own SIL?"
"What a horrid person."
"Trying to find someone to watch and trust with your kids is hard enough."
"Finding someone you trust who your kids and you adore is like the ultimate mommy prize."
"No one gets to steal her!"- th987
"She tried to poach your nanny not the other way around and now she's bitter that it didn't work."
"She tried to put you in a bad situation of having to look for and interview new people while also wondering if they would get on with your kids instead of finding her own nanny."
"She has cost you more money to retain the help you ALREADY HAVE."
"She's a sneaky a**hole and anyone who doesn't see that is an a**hole too."
"Complaining to others that her plans were thwarted makes her a prolapsed a**hole."- Choice-Intention-926
It is a bit strange that the OP's husband felt the need to call her "petty", when it was their SIL who went behind their back to try to take Isabelle away from them.
Nor does the OP's husband seem to realize how rare a find Isabelle is, who was probably due for a raise even if she wasn't approached by the OP's SIL.
Luckily, the OP's husband won't have to realize what loss Isabelle leaving them would have been, all thanks to their spouse, the OP, who did exactly what they had to to keep her.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp