Recipes can be sacred.
So many families take secret recipes to the grave.
Why? Who knows.
For many, food is part of a love language.
A language that can cause a lot of problems.
Redditor bossbabebrit wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback, so naturally, they came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
They asked:
"AITA for gatekeeping my late aunt's kugel recipe?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"This may sound silly, but I'm in a little family squabble over kugel (a Jewish noodle casserole)."
"Just last week, my aunt passed away."
"I was home alone with our elderly dog while my husband and kids were away visiting my in-laws."
"That's when I found out."
"So, I was unable to attend the funeral."
"Less than a month ago, I found my old recipe book that had gone missing 8 years prior during a move."
"I had searched endlessly for it because it had held my aunt's coveted Kugel recipe."
"Over the years, I tried getting the recipe again from her and other family members, but none of them tasted the same."
"When I found my book and read the recipe, I realized that the reason none of them were the same was because I had written it in her kitchen as we made it together."
"I wrote down everything she said, including her funny 'measurements' like '1 cup, or 2... maybe ¼ box.'"
"It wasn't just a recipe, it was a memory."
"So, when she passed, I shared the story on Facebook."
"My cousin, her son, asked for the recipe."
"Of course, I sent it to him."
"But then he asked me to post it on my Facebook."
"He even went as far as saying that if I didn't do it, he would."
"I told him it felt odd and asked why."
"He said it would be nice so that anyone could make it."
"I usually don't like gatekeeping, but this feels different."
"This recipe took me years to recover."
"Even her own kids didn't have it."
"It just feels like something that should stay in the family."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So, AITA for not wanting to post it online for everyone?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP WAS the A**hole.
"I would suggest looking up 'ring theory.'"
"It basically posits that in a crisis, including the death of a loved one, there are rings surrounding the center of the grief."
"People in the different rings should 'comfort in, dump out.'"
"So, for example, if a close friend dies, you should comfort their spouse/children, and seek comfort from others who were less close to the friend than you were."
"In most (though not all) cases, a son is going to be closer to someone than a niece."
"The comfort he is seeking is the ability to share something of his mother's that means something to him - whether or not you think it should mean something to him - without creating drama/strife with you, his cousin."
"To withhold that comfort from her son, in order to bring yourself comfort, strikes me as cruel."
"Also, assuming your aunt was a loving mother, I would think she wouldn't want you to stand in the way of her son doing whatever small actions he thinks will help him cope with her passing."
"YTA. Unintentionally, but I would never forgive a family member if they tried to put their fairly minor needs above my own while I was coping with the death of a parent."
"This sort of thing is relationship-destroying." ~ conbird
"I totally agree with ring theory, and had OP withheld the recipe from the son of the aunt, I would be 100% on the same page."
"What rubs me the wrong way is that the son has received the recipe from OP, but specifically wants OP to post it on their Facebook."
"That just seems controlling, when son is already in possession of the recipe and could just post it himself if he wished."
"YTA. I don't understand gatekeeping recipes."
"Wouldn't your aunt want it shared so many people can enjoy it?"
"And even more, YTA, because her SON, her next of kin, asked you to do it." ~ Evening-Cry-8233
"Gentle YTA as a Jew who cooks traditional food for the holidays."
"Anyone who is going to take the time and trouble to make kugel from scratch will be delighted to have this recipe."
"I don't want to open a minefield here, but in these times, keeping traditions alive seems especially important and poignant."
"Why not let your kugel recipe be enjoyed by others?"
"I still have similar handwritten recipes tucked into books by relatives who have passed, and I'd share with anyone who asks. It's kugel, not a secret sauce."
"Or the Coca-Cola formula!" ~ Dunesgirl
"I've never understood being so precious about family recipes."
"If it's good, share it."
"I've shared countless of my great-grandmother's recipes with friends who've asked, and oddly, they still taste just as good when I make them now as they did before I shared them. YTA." ~ kalequinoa
"Yeah, I had a cousin like this."
"He refused to share a 'family recipe' that was my grandmother's/his great aunt."
"Once I really got into baking, I dragged out some old notebooks of my grandmother's, made the cake, posted a pic of it, and posted the recipe. OP, YTA." ~ ComeHereBanana
"YTA. That is how treasured family recipes get lost forever."
"The same goes for those who gatekeep a recipe by handing out a recipe that they say is theirs, but which has a crucial ingredient changed or omitted altogether so that theirs can be 'the best.'"
"My daughter has tinkered with her grandmother's Xmas cookie recipe for years, because it wasn't the same as those my husband remembers."
"The recipe she handed down to her daughter and DILs has shortening as the fat."
"It appears that the original called for lard."
"Vast difference in the texture of the final cookie." ~ TheFilthyDIL
"This is a problem we have in my family."
"Everyone who knew the recipes my father grew up with passed before he even married my mother, and anything they had written down before then was lost in a flood."
"I've been trying to recreate my great-grandmother's biscuits for years, and he has zero information for me."
"Share your family recipes, you guys." ~ WinterNocturne
YTA for this crap story."
"He has the recipe; it is no longer 'your' secret. "
"You already opened the gate."
"He said if you don't post it, he will."
"First, then why didn't he just post it?"
"Second, so it doesn't matter if you 'gatekeep' and don't post it because he WILL." ~ mm1palmer
"YTA. You literally only have it based on luck."
"It obviously wasn't something you cherished since it was in a box for almost a decade."
"I hope he posts it, especially after hearing your selfish, super flimsy excuse for not doing it." ~ Lucky_Volume3819
"YTA. It's not even your recipe."
"Her own son wants to share it with the world, and if anything, it's his decision to make." ~ Eternalthursday1976
"Soft YTA."
"If I understand your story right, she wasn't gatekeeping it."
"She shared it, but it wasn't like when you stood there and made it with her."
"So she did try, just was inaccurate."
"Considering that she didn't mind sharing it, and her son is asking you to do this, then I think you should." ~ angryromancegrrrl
"YTA. You don't own the recipe."
"You own that copy of it."
"If he decides to share his mother's recipe, it's not your right to stop him."
"Keep the sentimental copy you have because that is your memory, but let the rest of the family and her community have the chance to honor her memory." ~ lungbuttersucker
"YTA. You're being selfish."
"Her recipe isn't particularly unique or special, but the story behind it is, and you're depriving everyone of it."
"Get over yourself." ~ whyisthissticky
"YTA - you already made the decision to share it with your cousin (which was the right call)."
"What he does with his mother's recipe is his business."
"I can't imagine losing my mom, wanting to celebrate her by sharing a lost recipe, and my cousin deciding to make some weird stand about a recipe that's not hers."
"All that does is guarantee that it eventually becomes a lost recipe again." ~ REDDIT
"YTA- recipes are meant to be spread and enjoyed."
"It's horrible to gatekeep food, especially when it's connected to the memory of someone who has passed away." ~ hero_of_kvatch215
"I don't actually consider this situation gatekeeping."
"OP gave it to her cousin, the aunt's son. I hope that OP would give it to any family member who asked."
"She should."
"If she refused to share it with family, then she'd be gatekeeping a recipe that isn't even hers."
"But demanding that she post it online is a step too far, in my opinion."
"I have many family recipes (mostly from both grandmas) and many recipes I have created myself."
"A friend and I bake for fun and have created several recipes together."
"I/We share all of those with any family member or friend who asks."
"I will never post those recipes online."
"These recipes are shared with people we know and love."
"I have no desire to make them public."
"If someone who has one of my/our recipes posted it online, I wouldn't be thrilled, but I wouldn't throw a fit."
"The aunt's son has the recipe and can post it if he chooses."
"I think overall, OP is NTA for not wanting to post a family recipe on social media."
"That assumes that she will share it with other family members." ~ Wackadoodle-do
Reddit has some issues with your choice, OP.
If her kids are cool with it, then maybe it's not your place to worry about it.
After all, it is just food.
Your memories are yours.
No one can take those away.
Sorry for your loss.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp