There's a saying:
"Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people."
I don't know if I'd go that far.
But many of my family traditions once had federal laws—the Indian Acts—that banned them until the 1970s-1990s. Upholding our traditions feels more like an act of rebellion than conformity, so maybe I'm biased when it comes to family traditions.
A woman being pressured by her in-laws to follow their family tradition turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
After_Ad3961 asked:
"AITA for not following my husband's family tradition?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My husband (29, male) comes from a very traditional family. While we disagree with his family on many things, it has never really been an issue until now."
"I (28, female) am currently 8 months pregnant and my husband and I couldn't be happier as we've been trying for a while. Since I first found out I was pregnant, we've been discussing names for our child."
"In my husband's family, the tradition wants the child to be named after his grandfather. Basically, first-born men in his family only have one of two names: James or Henry."
"My husband's grandfather was James, so his name is James too. My husband's father is called Henry, so our child should be too. And so on and so forth."
"It's only the first-born male of the first-born male, etc... So technically my husband's aunts and uncles didn't have to name their children James."
"But they still often give either James or Henry as a middle name, and sometimes as a first name. My husband has a bunch of cousins with those names as either their middle or first name."
"But my husband and I didn't really feel like calling our child Henry, and although it's a beautiful way to honor family members, we really wanted our child to have a name that would be personal, that would truly be his."
"So we chose another name, and decided to wait until after the birth to reveal it to everyone. It's Oliver! I've loved this name forever and we feel like it really matches our spirit, plus we love a somewhat classic name."
"This week, my mother-in-law came to visit us and help us set up for the baby. She brought us some presents, amongst which was a bunch of clothes on which she hand embroidered the name Henry."
"I said that it was nice and thanked her for it, but told her that we wouldn't be naming our child Henry, as we had already told her in the past. She started insisting and saying that it was a tradition so it had to be that way."
"We had already told his family back when we announced that we were expecting—or when we announced we were having a boy, I don't exactly remember. I don't know if they thought it was a joke and were in denial or if they were trying to manipulate us so that we'd change our minds, but yeah it was already established that our son wouldn't be Henry."
"I explained to her that we'd rather give our child a name that we chose, and that Henry could be his middle name."
"She immediately went to my husband and started saying things like 'you're not going to let her do that to our family' and making it very dramatic, saying that I was breaking a tradition that went back hundreds of years—honestly, not sure about that."
"We hyphenated our last names back when we got married. They weren't happy about that one either..."
"My husband tried to explain that we both agreed on the name, and all the reasons why we made that choice, but she wouldn't listen. She suggested that we name him Henry on paper, as his legal name, and then call him something else."
"But I thought that would be confusing for him and told her that he would be named what we chose."
"She kept begging my husband and saying that I was ruining the family tradition, and at one point I lost it—which is partially to blame on hormones I think—and told her that it was our child, so we could do what we wanted, and we didn't have to follow a stupid tradition."
"She stormed out and my husband has since received texts from his father and sister accusing me of making his mother feel really bad and some other stuff that I don't really remember."
"He's been trying to push back, but his family won't listen and they're convinced that I manipulated him or something... But at least he's standing up to them, so there's that."
"I get the importance of tradition and it can be really beautiful, but also I feel like that shouldn't be an obligation and it's okay to change things."
We won't change our baby's name because we're really set on that, but maybe we were wrong for not following the tradition?"
"I'm not entirely sure, and am mentally exhausted by all this drama..."
The OP summed up their situation.
"We might be a**holes for not naming our baby Henry after the family tradition and refusing to reconsider it."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"I will never understand this. What if your family had the same tradition? Who wins? NTA in the slightest. Congratulations on your pregnancy and give your sweet boy whatever name you and your husband choose!" ~ NojaysCita
"Tell your in-laws that the thousand year long tradition in your family is that the mother and father of the baby chose the name and you'll be following your family's tradition. NTA." ~ SadFlatworm1436
"Tell them that your family has a tradition of giving each child their own name, and you decided to go with that tradition. NTA." ~ Putrid_Performer2509
"Husband needs to be telling his god-awful parents off. Never let your parents bully your spouse."
"It's not like his parents are going to spontaneously combust because he stood up to their crappy behavior. NTA." ~ OrNothingAtAll
"I work in finance and deal a lot with older clients and their beneficiaries. People with money love naming their kids after themselves."
"We have a family here that has a huge trust. All the grandkids are in it. All of the male grandkids have the same f*cking name."
"Literally five of them have the same name because of a 'tradition' similar to this. The paperwork is an absolute nightmare, and all of them have had multiple issues because there are three male generations of this family that all have multiple members that all have the same name."
"NTA. Avoid this bullsh*t." ~ SeriousEye5864
"My half-brother was a 'the third' and his father, the second, took out a mortgage, boat, and several car loans in his name. He was burdened with terrible credit when he was 23 and trying to start his own life."
"NTA. Tradition is manipulation at its finest." ~ finley111819
"Oh, man, this was me. Anything my partner did that they didn't like = my fault. Any disagreement about anything was because of my brainwashing them."
"I was like, 'I can't even get them to hang up their towel after a shower, so I'm not sure where this is coming from'." ~ thesturdygerman
"Yeah, same. We had only been dating 6 months tops, but I was the reason my now spouse left the church."
"At one point, my now father-in-law said that Spouse apologized to me too much. Which was actually hilarious because at the same time my mom was like, 'why do you need to talk every decision over with Spouse? Just do what you want!'."
"All because I decided against getting a quilt in a pattern I knew Spouse would absolutely despise."
"For some parents, the other family is always wrong and manipulative and you have to watch out for your precious baby who would never disobey you, I guess." ~ wayward_witch
"Tell them every time they say anything more on the subject, it's another extra month of no contact until they can meet your baby."
"This name decision is final, nothing anyone has to say will change your minds, THE PARENTS are the only ones who get to pick their kids' names, as has been done for 1000s of years."
"If they don't like it, then sorry they feel that way, and you wouldn't want them to suffer anymore by having to see your newborn son called {not-Henry}, as you know it will cause them so much pain."
"Since all they are doing is causing you anger and pain and drama, you will be removing the toxic people from your life going forward, until they can get their head screwed on straight again. One mention of the name Henry = 6 month ban." ~ Dense_Dress_1287
In an ironic twist, I'm actually named after my maternal Metís Grandmother.
But it's never been an official family tradition. No one pressured or forced my parents to do anything and I think that makes all the difference.
My Gram Amelia was named after her maternal Grandmother, and so on going back to the mid-17th century when the first Indigenous Canadian woman in our family married a French fur trapper in Northern Quebec near Hudson Bay.
For the next ~200 years, Indigenous Canadian or Metís women were married and baptized Catholic on the same day to join my Metís family line. Needing a Saint's name to join the Catholic Church, it was easy to pick the current family matriarch's—the Grandmother's—name.
Then it just became a tribute to a beloved family member that someone in the family always picked. I'm not the oldest female among my cousins—I'm the 3rd youngest—or in my family—I'm the middle child.
My parents named all three of their daughters after family members because it's what they wanted to do.
So that's how I got my traditional, not a family tradition, name.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp