News of an expectant family member always brings joy, and relatives are eager to get to know the newborn when they enters the world.
However, one guy is not happy about an expectation placed on him once the baby arrives, and when he verbalized his true feelings, it was met with drama that led him to the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
There, Redditor NotTheFunUncle asked:
"AITA For being upfront about the fact that I will not be doing things with my nephew or being the 'fun uncle' since I don't like kids and never agreed to be the 'fun uncle?' "
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My sister Lauren is pregnant with a boy who she is planning to name 'David.' Long story short, David's father Bryan is a loser and my sister is not going to be getting any help from him."
"Lauren has been talking a lot about how a boy needs a father figure, David's going to look for mentorship in the wrong places unless family steps up, and some more obvious statements that show she expects me to be the 'fun uncle' type with David."
"I don't want any confusion in the future, so I told Lauren upfront how I'm not going to be the 'fun uncle' type or have any parental role with David. I'll be polite at any family events and send a gift for his birthday/xmas but that's it."
"It's not personal, I've just never liked kids, I find them annoying, and I don't want to ever be responsible for one."
The OP continued:
"Bryan's brother Andrew wants to be involved. He has two young kids who he wants David grow up with and have a strong relationship with the cousins. Our own brother George also wants to be involved. So I told Lauren how David has plenty of adult male figures without me."
"Lauren launched into me saying that uncles still isn't the same as an actual father and David needs all the support he can get since Bryan won't be here. She accused me of flaking out on my own blood."
"I have my own life and wasn't going to be involved regardless of the situation with Bryan. I've always been upfront that I wasn't going beyond holiday gifts and other basic politeness. Besides, Andrew and George will be involved uncles, so I don't get why this pressure is on me."
"Lauren argued that hosting him for a sleepover or taking him to a museum isn't asking the world. Realistically, one polite but distant uncle won't have any negative impact on a kid, and I can't be 'flaking out' of a commitment that I never agreed to take in the first place, AITA?"
Anonymous strangers weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Many Redditors thought the OP was not the a**hole (NTA) here.
"NTA."
"It's not nice of her to foist this responsibility upon you, knowing how you feel about it."
"Even if you love kids, it would be wrong of her to expect your involvement as she dictates."
"Refuse to discuss the subject any longer with her. If she starts in, simply head her off at the pass by telling her something like 'Lauren, this subject is now off limits. You have no right to dictate responsibilities to me regarding your son. Please stop.' "
"Repeat as necessary, not altering your words. She'll get tired of hearing the same sentences over and over again soon enough." – LoveBeach8
"The shouldn't waste their time forcing baby daddy to be a father....but they should spend time getting him on the hook for as much child support as possible. I also wonder if OP's sister is trying to line up not only replacement father figures but also replace father financial support."
"NTA." – chudan_dorik
"I think the biggest thing is his sister is ignoring the desire for two other uncles, one of which will also has kids, to be a good male figure in David's life."
"No, she wants OP specifically to do this, and then talks about uncles aren't the same as a father figure while also not asking for a father figure? IDK, this comes across as super Roll Tide-y to me." – andrewtater
"NTA."
"I'm the polite, distant uncle that sends checks for birthdays/holidays. (It helps that I live in a completely different time zone)."
"The ones judging you saying you're the a/h must've missed the weird fixation your sister has on expecting YOU to be the primary sleepover/culture fix/mentor in HER child's life."
"Let me guess: you're single, independent, and probably have more disposable income than the other men in the family, correct?" – Bunny_Bixler99
"I had 7 uncles, none of them were involved, I got birthday cards from one aunt and uncle, but the others never paid any attention to me."
"Lauren should have thought about the need for a decent father for her child before she decided to have a child with a guy who she knows won't be that."
"NTA." – ArreniaQ
"NTA. 'Be mad at your sperm donor, not me. Bryan owes you and David a promise to exist as a father. I'm not a dad. I don't want to be in a paternal role. I don't really want to be in an uncle role. You have plenty of people on both sides to step in, so insisting that I have to as well because you slept with a jacka** and got pregnant by him isn't my fault. Be pissed at Bryan. Don't transfer that anger onto me. I won't tolerate it.' " – Perimentalpause
"NTA. Your sister isn't entitled to your time, money, or whatever for a kid you had no role in bringing into this world. Not every family member needs to be a big figure in a kid's life."
"He has other male figures excited to do stuff with him. And also lots of kids have been raised by just women and turned out great. Hey, maybe in the future, you'll end up forming a bond with the kid and will want to hang out with him, but being forced won't be helpful." – yrcastr
"NTA."
"It's your life, and not your kid OP. Though maybe I'm a tad bias by saying that I completely understand why your sister would be kinda peeved at that because it seems like from her perspective she's hearing you say that you don't wanna get within a mile of the kid (even though that's not what you're saying). Maybe you two should talk and clarify what the two of you mean." – Bene1925
"Sounds like 'fun uncle' is her code for free on-demand babysitter. She is pissed that her idea of having you babysit every weekend, take the child to and from day care/school and pay for said day care/school costs just fell apart." – Classic_Ad3987
"NTA."
"I am a pretty present aunt, but it's on my schedule (unless it's an emergency). I love my niblings, but don't want my own kids. I don't host sleepovers or extended stays because my house is my space, but I will go to their house and hang out."
"It's not like you are going to be antagonistic or mean to the child. And it sounds like he will have plenty of family involved." – yesletslift
"NTA. Sounds like he will have good people in his life, an extra person won't make a difference. Especially one who doesn't like kids. I'm with you on that, 55F and never had a child or changed a diaper. Your sister is entitled to think she can tell who will be involved in the kids life. Should come from love and choice." – Inmontes
"NTA."
"But I had/have aunts and uncles similar to you. I have 0 relationship with any of them as an adult. So, just letting you know you aren't opting out of just knowing them as a child, you're possibly opting out of knowing them for their whole lives." – stalecigsmell
"NTA."
"You're actually doing your future Nephew a favor if that's how you feel. Kids can tell which adults want them around."
"I love being a big Cousin, but I don't have to understand your mindset to know that if you really don't want him there it will do damage to him to force it." – Pale_Cranberry1502
"It baffles me how involved some uncles and aunties are expected to be. Other than my grandma and obviously my parents, I never had any relative take me out for one on one time. You can judge for yourself, but I think I turned out fine. NTA." – Affectionate-End5411
Overall, Redditors thought there was no shame in being the uncle who is distant but will still be present by acknowledging David's birthday and other notable events and celebrations in his life.
They also felt assured in the fact there little David will have plenty of family members and loved ones clamoring for his attention and won't have emotional trauma over the OP going out of his way to hang with his nephew.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp