Bringing another human being into this world is a miracle.
For some, the process is long and arduous.
For others, it's easy.
No matter how a child arrives, everyone says it's a blessing.
So why belittle it by calling it anything else?
Redditor redmeansily wanted to discuss her experience and get feedback, so she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"AITA for telling people that I'm an IVF baby?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (20 F[emale]) am an I[n] V[itro] F[ertilization] baby."
"My father always told me about how I was made, etc."
"To the point that I would tell my teachers in kindergarten that I had 'seed siblings.'"
"Fast forward to today - we are on a vacation with family and friends, and my Uncle made a joke about me being an 'accident.'"
"It was really funny... can't lie."
"So I responded with something along the lines of 'Haha, no my parents wanted me enough to pay money for me.'"
"The discussion was in another language so this is the closest I can translate it to."
"Back to the point, he started yelling at me, saying it's 'shameful' to tell people that."
"He (my uncle) has been yelling at me ever since, and it's been 12 hours!!"
"I just don't think there is anything to apologize for because I take pride in being an IVF baby."
"Like damn, my parents wanted me so bad that they went to extreme lengths!!"
"But he has been saying pretty awful things, including stuff like how disgraceful it is to announce that, or how it's private and I'm invading their privacy?"
"It was never a secret that I'm an IVF baby."
"So should I apologize?"
"I just want to note that I will not apologize to 'keep the peace,' only if what I did was genuinely wrong."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"I'm sorry. Your uncle genuinely sounds... awful."
"I'm not sure what the context of the joke was or your cultural background, but I can't imagine how calling your relative an 'accident' could be funny."
"The only way I would consider it funny is if he was saying it ironically, knowing that you were, in fact, very carefully planned."
"In which case, he is the one who first brought it up, and I don't understand why he would get angry for you following through on his joke."
"The fact he actually got angry about you saying it makes me feel like he didn't intend for it to be ironic - he intended for it to be hurtful, and when you undermined his insult he got mad."
"Where I come from, there is absolutely no shame in speaking of such things."
"Perhaps he thinks it alludes to your father/mother having fertility issues, and maybe thinks that is embarrassing or something?"
"As a woman with fertility issues myself, again - a**hole points for the uncle."
"How terrible that he thinks it's something to be ashamed of. NTA." ~ angusthecrab
OP wanted to clarify a few things.
"I want to mention that in our culture, there's nothing wrong with IVF."
"A lot of people I know (including other members of the family - my mom's cousins etc,) also have IVF children who they proudly talk about."
"My parents also have no issue with me talking about it."
"My mom (his sister) tells almost every single person she meets how happy she is that IVF worked and how she got to be a mother."
"That's why I'm extremely confused and thought I may be the a**hole."
"I never got this kind of reaction when I mentioned I'm an IVF baby before."
Reddit continued to weigh in.
"I will say this... I was an accident."
"And a rainbow baby (baby before me died)."
"My sister calls herself the 'used to be baby,' and we all joke that at least they (my older siblings, youngest being 16 when I was born, they are all in their 50s now) were at least wanted."
"And I shrug it off and tell them at least they'd be 20 years deader than I will be."
"30 if they keep smoking and drinking!"
"We laugh and move on."
"Sometimes you just need to laugh at yourself as much as the others."
"I may have made a mistake."
"But I was adored by more of Mom's relatives than they were."
"So I get the last laugh. HAHAHA." ~ Fluffy_Doubter
"Two of my siblings were absolutely accidents (breastfeeding is NOT birth control, folks!) and there are definitely light-hearted jokes about them being opposites."
"There are jokes about one of my sisters being evicted (emergency c-section)."
"People make jokes about conception and birth methods quite often."
"For OP being IVF to be open, common knowledge, and frequently talked about in their family and someone getting that upset about it after 20 years shows that person has their own issues."
"Definitely NTA." ~ ColoredGayngels
"NTA. Your uncle calling you an accident was super gross and basically invaded your and your parents' privacy, because who TF is he to make this kind of assumption?"
"He is the one who should be ashamed since we all know what sort of accident he was referring to."
"In the future, though, it might be worth finding out how your parents would feel about people knowing this fact about you (and, by extension, them)." ~ keinebedeutung
"NTA - it is only shameful if you equate the need for IVF with some failure of the parents."
"Next time he yells ask him if he is worried infertility runs in the family and if he is ashamed of your parents for needing help."
"Also, tell him it is more shameful for him, a grown man, to imply that you were unwanted and pretend to a knowledge of other people he does not have." ~ Timely_Egg_6827
"NTA; it does feel like we're missing some sort of context though."
"Cultural things that I'm not aware of aside, your uncle needs to get over himself, and let it go."
"You're still NTA." ~ MissyOzark
"NTA, it would appear your uncle is projecting his own insecurities."
"Be proud of who you are, and the incredible advancements in medicine that brought you here."
"Sincerely, a hopeful mom-to-be in the middle of her first IVF cycle."
"I hope one day my child can be as proud as you." ~ papayacounterbalance
"NTA. As a parent of IVF babies, I can assure you the pain and suffering my wife and I had to go through means you are indeed loved with a passion over and above what's normal."
"As to whether you should tell people."
"It's up to you."
"I might suggest you ask your parents first if they mind, as it can be something that they don't want to be known."
"In my case, I'd urge you to tell all."
"You're awesome, you're unique and so loved."
"Have a great day." ~ OriginalStockingfan
"NTA and your uncle are very weird and also wrong."
"Nothing about IVF is shameful."
"Also, it might have been something your parents cared to keep private, but you are an adult, and it's how you were born, so it's up to you for it to be private or not." ~ CarbonationRequired
"NTA, obviously."
"Here's the thing about IVF parents - we are grateful every damn day."
"Even the tough parenting days."
"You and my children are part of a miracle created through science and love, and personally, I never had any trouble talking about it if people asked."
"Nothing to hide or be ashamed of."
"And by the way, we had a surprise third baby after ten IVF cycles and two babies (all three are teens now) - and our reaction was to feel triply blessed and never to take any of this for granted."
"Certainly not to consider it an 'accident.'"
"But anyway, none of this is your uncle's business, and your parents should tell him to zip it." ~ SortofWriter
"NTA. I can't give you any cultural context,t but I was conceived with ART as well (IUI with sperm donor semen) and have no issue discussing it."
"My dad is my dad."
"My donor is my donor."
"And my 30+ half-siblings and I have a remarkably gay Facebook chat where we share memes because we're all millennials." ~ Obstetrix
"NTA... your culture sounds to me like one of these where men must be strong and verily and you blurting out how they had to pay to have you, makes his brother or sister less than because they couldn't get you naturally."
"He's the AH, and you shouldn't have to be yelled at for it, but also being loud and proud of being an IVF baby is weird."
"Imagine if we were 'proud our parents banged the old fashioned way to have us.'"
"Proud of your method of conception is just weird. Lol." ~ DadsBadAtGaming
"NTA. I am trying to have a baby via IVF."
"If we are successful, we will explain to the children someday how they were made."
"Once we tell them, it becomes part of their story, too, and they can tell who they wish."
"We will probably warn them, however, that not everybody is supportive of IVF and to be prepared for possible negative reactions."
"I hope that they someday feel like you do—confident in the knowledge that we wanted them so much we went through a lot of difficulty to have them." ~ CosmicGreen_Giraffe3
"NTA... this is your personal story, and your 100% your choice how you choose to share it."
"Your uncle is out of line."
"Most likely some religious-based guilt of not doing things 'God's way' that he is projecting on you."
"That is his problem to deal with, not yours."
"For example- I left the Catholic church due to their stance, but many other churches are not against reproductive help- it is an entire rabbit hole for another day."
"I have an IVF baby (well teen) myself who is fully aware and speaks freely about it."
"I saved a lot of the documents to help them understand, and at this point, it is just a part of their story." ~ wfhchamp
"NTA - my daughter is also an IVF baby, and we've told people that she was mixed in a dish since... well since she was mixed in a dish!"
"She loves it and is now a midwife."
"She will soon be giving a guest lecture to a fertility specialists' conference, which I think is fabulous ❤️."
"Be proud of your origins story!" ~ Tabby_Mc
"NTA. I will be the first to say this may be a cultural difference because I'm in the US, and you mentioned what you said in your language."
"But I honestly don't understand what your uncle has to be embarrassed about."
"Even if IVF were something to be ashamed of (it's not), he's not the one that went through it."
"Maybe someone should tell him that since the people actually involved in the IVF are not ashamed, he can shut up." ~ Independent_Prior612
"NTA. The only thing I can think of is that he's embarrassed on behalf of his sibling that they couldn't naturally conceive."
"Or he can't conceive, is embarrassed, and took it out on you?"
"Maybe he's got a kid who also was IVF, and that kid doesn't know because he's embarrassed?"
"People get weird about that sort of thing."
"Anyway, you're totally not the a**hole, and he's being weird and mean." ~ kingchik
"NTA. Also, since the only people that it really involves are you and your parents, if your parents are also not embarrassed or ashamed of having an IVF baby (not that they should in any way, shape, or form, I think it's great), then I think it's your prerogative to joke or say anything you want about it."
"The uncle can go sulk in private." ~ ANorthernBanana
"NTA. Your uncle can make jokes about you being 'a mistake,' but you can't correct him?"
"Sounds like your uncle doesn't really understand what it means to be 'an IVF' baby and is shifting his embarrassment onto you." ~ Nyx-by-night
"NTA. Don't allow your uncle to censor your truth."
"I suspect that if you were a man, he wouldn't be so free with inappropriate criticism."
"'Culture' and 'respect for elders' is neither an explanation nor a justification for his egregious behavior."
"It's irrelevant whether IVF babies are common."
"You are allowed to tell people your own history."
"You should not apologize for what you said; it will send the worst message of validation to him." ~ CandylandCanada
"Mother of an IVF baby here."
"Nothing shameful about it."
"I'm proud that we didn't give up."
"I'm so glad we fought so hard."
"I'm incredibly proud of the young man that bunch of cells that were mixed outside my defective body has become."
"And I'm so so grateful to the scientists that made him possible."
"You are NTA." ~ Bazzlekry
Reddit is with you, OP.
What you're going through is awful.
There is no shame in IVF.
You deserve to be here.
Your uncle is completely out of line.
Keep telling your story.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp