Wedding traditions vary from country to country and culture to culture.
Some of the more common ones in the United States are brides wearing white, tossing the bridal bouquet to the single women in attendance to see who will be next to marry, a first dance for the bridal couple, cutting the cake and feeding each other the first bite, a father-daughter dance, and a mother-son dance.
Most of those traditions date back only to the late 19th century, and several are falling out of favor in the 21st century.
A couple who are reluctantly having a wedding—instead of eloping like they'd prefer—to satisfy a family request is hoping to eliminate several of those traditions from their celebration.
The groom's mother—however—doesn't approve.
So he turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Cautious-Load-1091 asked:
"AITA for skipping the mother-son wedding dance since my fiancée can't do one with her dad?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I'm getting married in early August. My fiancée and I both really wanted to elope, but due to tremendous pressure from family decided to have a 'small' wedding that has now increased to about 80 people."
"The guilt is mostly related to her grandma who's in her 90s. They asked her to please do it, and she didn't want to tell them no."
"She's really close with her grandma, who is starting to dwindle. I like her parents a lot, too; they've been decently good about boundaries."
"Her grandma is paying for everything."
"We're pretty annoyed that the guest list has gotten so high, but it is what it is."
"My fiancée and I are already dreading the first dance with everyone watching, but we're going to do it. Neither of us really wanted to do the parental dance—her with her dad, me with my mom."
"But now it's not even an option for her as her dad needs unplanned hip replacement surgery. Her dad will be able to go to the wedding in a wheelchair but definitely can't do any dancing."
"He's a little sad about it, but has been a good sport."
"I didn't want to do the mom dance even before this, but now it seems like it would just put even more of a spotlight on her dad not doing one. So my fiancée and I agreed we'd just skip that all together."
"We already didn't want to do either one of them."
"Once it wasn't an option for her is when we told ourselves we were shutting the door on it. Even our first dance between us will just be one verse of a song."
"Trying to keep this wedding as low key as possible."
"As you can imagine, Mom isn't taking it well. She's been acting like a main character for all of the wedding planning, but especially now."
"AITA for sticking to my guns and not doing it?"
The OP summed up their situation.
"I could be the a**hole for not following the wedding tradition and having a dance between the groom and mother of the groom."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors unanimously declared the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA—this wedding is for YOU and YOUR FIANCÉE. You've already compromised by having a wedding vs eloping, so your mom needs to get over it."
"Be sure to talk to your DJ and make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that there will not be a mother-son dance, just in case your mom tries to ambush you."
"'No mom, the only spotlight dance we will have is the first dance for me and fiancée. Fiancée and I never wanted to do a father-daughter dance or a mother-son dance in the first place'."
"'Now that her dad is unable, we will not be doing either of them. I'm sorry you feel that way. This is already so much more than my fiancée, and I even wanted to do."
"'We wanted to elope. But agreed to a small wedding just to make you happy'."
"'And even that isn't right, because it's not a small wedding anymore! We are not doing the spotlight dances because we don't want to'." ~ DisneyBuckeye
"NTA. The wedding is for the two partners getting hitched. Anything else is optional. If you both say no dance, then no dance." ~ KronkLaSworda
"If you're both dreading the first dance with each other, skip that too! Just have the DJ invite everyone to start dancing. As a backup, get some of your friends to join you at the start so everyone can see the dancing is open for anyone to join from the first song. NTA."
"However, if you wanted to do first dances with parents, I recently went to one where the groom's mom couldn't dance, so the groom improvised and danced with his dad. It was cute, and the bride wasn't left to dance solo with her dad." ~ RiverWear
"NTA. Its not too late to elope. It sounds like your families have already taken over and you're not actually making the decisions you want to make for your own wedding."
"What's the point of having a wedding if it doesn't contain anything that you and your partner actually want? At this point you have four main options."
"1. Stand up to your family and insist that they butt out of your wedding planning. 2. Cancel the wedding and go back to your original elopement plan. 3. Accept that you cannot/will not get your family to listen to you and decide to let them do whatever they want."
"4. Do both 2 and 3. Elope first and have exactly the day you and your fiancée want, then go through the motions of the ceremony for your families while knowing that you already did the important part and you don't care about your fake ceremony."
"You seem incapable of 1, so I'd recommend 4. It gives you the best of both worlds. But you should work on setting stronger boundaries with your family or they'll ruin more than just your wedding." ~ fizzbangwhiz
"Your wedding, not hers. Your show, not hers. Your choice, not hers. NTA." ~ BusyLight32
"NTA and if you think you're ready to be married, then you had better be ready to put your foot down with your mother when you need to, and hold the fort on decisions you and your spouse make for each other."
"You are starting a new family together and need to support each other first.
"I recognize that pushing back on family can be hard with a wedding unless you're 100% paying for it yourselves. It gives family members leverage if they are contributing $$$."
"But stand your ground!" ~ DisasterMonk
"I'd tell your mom you aren't doing one. NTA. So don't do it. It's your wedding; stand up to your mother." ~ Decent-Historian-207
"NTA—not doing this specific 'mother son dance' doesn't mean you won't be able to dance with your mother during the reception while everyone is dancing and having a good time."
"Of course, she wants this 'spotlight' moment with you, but if that's not happening, she'll just have to get over it." ~ wildflower7827
"NTA. Bottom line is neither of you want it, so there's no obligation at your own wedding to have events you're not into." ~ thirdtryisthecharm
"NTA. My husband and I didn't do these dances for similar reasons."
"Also, it's your wedding; you don't have to follow any traditions you don't want to, like a first dance."
"Plan your wedding around things that you and your fiancée will enjoy and don't let others pressure you into spending money or doing things simply for the sake of wedding traditions." ~ chalky_talky
"NTA—my stepfather (father died when I was 2) was barely able to walk me down the aisle due to Parkinson's."
"We didn't do the parent dances because I didn't want to embarrass him or draw attention to his status. My MIL never mentioned it but pulled other shenanigans that made me doubly happy we didn't do it." ~ schnutch
"I wanted to elope. I caved to family pressure too. I hated every moment of my wedding/reception and have regretted it every time I think of that day."
"It was a stupid waste of money, there are people I cannot stand in my wedding pictures, and my husband and I didn't get a single bite of our own extremely expensive wedding cake--which was the one thing I was excited about."
"That's a whole other stupid story."
"Don't do it. Stop all planning and go elope. Do what the two of you want."
"This is about your relationship and has nothing to do with your family. NTA." ~ StacyB125
"My father is not a dancer; my now mother-in-law is not a dancer. Husband and I decided to skip that part, just had the two of us dance and let everyone else have the floor after."
"No one cared we didn't do family dances. NTA." ~ saltedkumihimo
"Nope, as the mother of a son getting married next year, I am praying he doesn't want to do one. I'd jump at the excuse not to."
"But if he wanted to, I would. Not my day, not my decision. It's his & I would respect his choice. NTA." ~ Itchy-Raspberry-4432
"My spouse and I didn't do those dances, and we didn't do the bouquet toss or garter belt thing either."
"Honestly, it's your wedding—you're NTA for being sensitive to your future wife." ~ WaryScientist
"NTA. If you don't stand your ground now, your mother will forever cross your boundaries." ~ trekgirl75
The OP's mom may not approve, but Reddit was clearly on board with his wedding day plans.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp