There's a great deal of talk lately in the United States about declining birth rates.
Families with more than two children are far less common than in the past.
But that doesn't mean there aren't large families still out there. And those more-than-two-kids families require special arrangements when childcare is required.
A brother being asked to accommodate his sister's brood turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Intelligent-Fig-5571 asked:
"AITA for not wanting to take in my sister's four kids while she’s in the hospital?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I (29, male) have a two-bedroom apartment. My wife and I have 2 kids (ages 5 & 7) who share a bedroom, and it’s not very spacious. My sister and I are the only relatives who live close to each other."
"Our parents live about an hour and a half away. I’m not sure about my sister's husband's family, I have never met them except his father."
"I love my sister, we are very close and talk everyday."
"My sister is currently pregnant with her 5th child, and had asked me about taking her kids when she goes to the hospital to deliver, and then for the next day after she comes home as well. Her reasoning is that it’s their last one, and she wants to savor it."
"She wants the second day alone with her husband, her, and the baby, at their house. She also didn’t want us to stay at her house to watch her kids. I’m not sure why my parents can’t come, or if she even asked."
"My mother-in-law came and stayed with my oldest child when our second child was born, and it was only one day. We didn't ask for a day alone at home with the new baby."
"Part of the reason we asked my MIL instead of my sister was she already had three kids by the time our second child was born. Having my sister watch our 2-year-old while we were at the hospital seemed like a big ask—my MIL was a much better choice for everyone."
"My sister has never babysat for me. We don’t need babysitters often, due to our MIL and my wife being stay-at-home moms. Even if I did need one, I wouldn’t ask her because I wouldn’t want to put more on her when she already has four kids."
"Her kids are 12, 10, 8 and 2. I told her I really didn’t think that would work out space-wise, and I work weekdays, so it would be mostly on my wife, which I find unfair to her, and it would be very tiring on her to try to handle six kids all alone."
"It’d be different if it were for a few hours or even one day, or if we were allowed to watch them in their own home, where they have their own bedrooms."
"I’m sure my wife is not jumping at the idea of watching 6 kids in our apartment. I also know the impact it can cause, so I'm saying no to my sister. It would be unfair to make my wife be the one to say no."
"The issue isn’t helping my sister, it’s the space in our apartment since we can't use her house, and the number of children, and for 2-3 days. It would be six kids, aged 12, 10, 8, 7, 5, and 2—from preteen to toddler—in a two bedroom apartment."
"My sister told me take the days off work, and just let the kids all squish together, that it’d be fine. I told her no, I really didn’t see how it would work out."
"She wanted them to come to our apartment when she went into labor, stay that night, and then the night she’s home as well. So it might be more like three days."
"She was upset I said no, and said she was getting stressed out because she really needed reliable care. I asked her what about her sitter (because she does have a sitter) and she said she really didn’t want to have to pay for childcare, and she wanted a day at home with just her husband and her and the baby. Her sitter watches the kids in her home."
"She can afford a sitter, her husband does pretty good for them. I think she just didn’t want to pay if she didn’t have to. Childcare for two days can be extremely expensive for that many kids, so I don’t fault her wanting to save money."
"I told her I was sorry, but no."
"She argued with me a little bit; which was more her trying to persuade me, then when she saw she couldn’t, she got mad and said that I was her only option and family helps family."
"It’s been 2 days, and she hasn’t reached out. We typically talk daily."
"AITA?"
The OP later added:
"We cannot go to her house to watch her kids because the second day she wants alone time at her home with her husband and the baby."
"I had watched her kids when she had her second and third, but I did not have children at the time. For her youngest, our parents ended up coming down because he was in the NICU for a week."
The OP summed up why they might be the a**hole in their situation.
"I told my sister I didn’t think I’d be able to watch her four kids in my two-bedroom apartment that I share with my wife and two kids when she had her fifth baby."
"She got upset and said I was her only choice and that family helps out. Maybe I am the a**hole because it’s a stressful time."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - more information needed
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"There’s what we want, and then there’s what our circumstances dictate. She sounds extremely spoilt for demanding 'alone time' to 'savor' her 5th kid whilst you and your family get to squeeze with her four other children like sardines." ~ emorrigan
"Never mind the bedrooms, eight people using how many bathrooms? Not allowed to use the home most of the people involved are used to because she wants to savor her 5th baby? They need a day by themselves?"
"Why have a boat load of kids if you want to be alone with the new one? Your home is the most inconvenient place available for you to watch these kids. Why not ask your parents for help? NTA, but your sister sure is." ~ Melodic-Psychology62
"I mean, maybe just maybe she could have asked you to take the 2-year-old in if they don't go to daycare after they are dropped off by the dad who has also dropped the older kids to school and asked you to collect the older kids from school for a couple of hours on the day of arrival from hospital so they can have a few hours together but even that would be pushing it big time." ~ Particular-Bird652
"Am I the only one who doesn’t think an hour and a half is that far? If the parents lived multiple states over or across the country, then sure I can see why she’d ask OP. Having the parents stay at the sister’s house or taking the kids to the parents’ house seems way more logical." ~ lizeken
"I think she wants the 4 she has now to leave and go somewhere else so she could pretend it's just her, her husband, and newborn. She probably knows no one else will indulge her bullsh*t." ~ NoOriginal0
"My mother-in-law lives three hours away, and she makes that drive for every school play, birthday, and holiday without question." ~ DropDeadDolly
"NTA. I agree, time for Grandma and Grandpa to take a trip to help out. 1.5 hours isn't that far."
"Here's a practical solution as long as they are physically and mentally fit enough to assist keeping kids alive:"
"• Brother goes to sister's house to watch sister's 4 kids when she goes to the hospital to deliver while his wife watches their 2 kids, each in their own home."
"• Immediate family doesn't visit in the hospital so sister and husband have new baby bonding time."
"• 12 and 8-year-old sisters' kids are prepped to be a help, not a burden, to grandparents with childcare and chores."
"• Parents drive 1.5 hours during delivery time or daylight to sister's house to take over for brother."
"• Sister gets real about the ability to have 'alone' time with just her and her husband and lets that go."
"• Sister's husband schedules vasectomy."
"Problem solved!" ~ Perfect_TAS
"I'm a big fan of those last two, given that they had five kids and are throwing a tantrum about alone time. They have help and support and no one has denied them in an emergency."
"It's just that this isn't an emergency, but instead it's 'I decided to have five kids and now I'm surprised and upset because alone time disappeared, it's definitely on other people to fix this unforeseeable problem for me'." ~ No-Hovercraft-455
OP's sister's demands seem excessive, expecting her brother's family to cram eight people in a two-bedroom apartment for an indeterminate amount of time so she can "savor" her fifth child.
Choices have consequences, and children come with responsibilities.
OP's sister chose to have five children. Now she and her husband are responsible for them.
Pushing them off on her brother because she wants free childcare—complete with savor time—isn't being responsible for her own choices.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp