When the children on the paternal side of my family were born, my Father's Mother would come to stay with each of her daughters or daughters-in-law for the time just before birth and a month after—or longer if needed.
Grandma Sally helped out with the newborn baby, household chores, and caring for any older children.
She taught my Mother—a labor, delivery and maternity ward RN—the Lakȟóta way to swaddle a baby. Mum then taught her colleagues at the hospital.
The support and knowledge of the matriarchs are an important tradition in my culture. Many cultures around the world have this same tradition.
A woman looking forward to the birth of her first child turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Key_Ambassador_9307 asked:
"AITA for telling my mom she should stay with me post partum instead of going to see my sister-in-law (SIL) who is also due soon?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"So I come from a culture where it is common for the woman's mother to stay with her and assist her during the end of pregnancy, the birth, and the first few weeks after the baby is born until she fully recovers and is able to care for the baby unassisted."
"My mom has always talked about wanting to do this for me. This is my first pregnancy, so while I am very nervous when I announced it, I knew my mom was looking forward to helping me through this phase as I am her only daughter."
"My brother and SIL already have one child and she found out she was pregnant with her second and was due soon after me."
"My SIL and I have a great relationship and when she had her first child, she chose to have it in our home country where her parents are. She had the same support from her own mother at the time and even extra support from other relatives including my mom."
"Although I live in the US, I went to visit her and help in any way I could because she felt that was important (I did too). Since then, she and my brother have moved to the US for career reasons (me, brother and SIL are all citizens, but all of our parents live in our home country)."
"They decided to stay in the US to have their second child. We are both due soon and unfortunately, her parents had some visa processing issues and cannot come in time for the delivery or shortly after.
"My mom however got approved and was planning to stay with me as we had discussed before."
"My brother asked my mom the other day if she could come help my SIL out for the delivery as her parents could not make it and she is expected to deliver 1-2 weeks after me."
"When she told me I (under the assumption I would have already delivered by then) told her that I think it makes sense for her to fly out briefly for the delivery and the initial nights, but that she should come back soon after."
"When my SIL heard this, she was upset and said that she doesn't have any family here and my mom was the only family she had and that she should at least be able to stay for the same 1-2 weeks that she is expected to help me out post partum before my SIL's due date."
"I countered by saying that I feel awful that her parents couldn't make it in time and that's why I'm fine with my mother leaving for a few days to help her out, but that this is my first pregnancy and I always thought my mom would be there in the way that we have always wanted and that at the very least she has been around the block before."
"Now my mom doesn't know what to do and I think she feels guilty. She has a good relationship with both me and SIL and doesn't want to upset anyone."
"I don't know if I'm being selfish here, so AITA?"
The OP later added:
"After reading some comments I want to clarify a few things:"
"Both SIL and I have supportive partners who will be taking time off regardless. It is not about that. In my culture and many others, childbirth is something where the women in our community come together to help."
"After growing up and leaving your parent's house, this is really one of the few moments you can feel like you need your mom again and have that bonding moment. I'm sure we both would manage if we only had our partners, but it's not just about that for us."
"If worst comes to worst and we both have difficult deliveries that require that kind of support, then my own MIL could be there for me then. In the scenario described above where one of us do not necessarily need my mom there more than the other, I would prefer to experience this phase with my own mother."
"I do not have a bad relationship with my own MIL, but we have a good understanding of our boundaries and I would not feel as comfortable asking for the same things or being as vulnerable as I would be with my own mother, especially during a time where emotions are high and hormones are fluctuating."
"For the people saying that both I and SIL are entitled or taking advantage of my mom, I want to stress that she WANTS to do this. Not just because of culture or an expectation, but because she is very passionate about pregnancy and childcare and has always told me she has been looking forward to having that moment with me when I have a baby."
"Back in our home country she has done this for countless and more distantly related women in our community and feels empowered by it."
"Our due dates are about 11 days apart, so I said 1-2 weeks to account for some buffer time. The people saying that either of us could deliver early or late are correct."
"As of now, we are both having healthy pregnancies and expected to deliver close to the due date and what I told her was simply under the conditions that we do deliver 1-2 weeks within each other without major complications."
"If the situation changes, I am open to changing my perspective."
"It is tradition yes, but I partly do feel my mother being there will make a big difference."
"I fully respect and applaud women who do it by themselves with only their partner there for support, but for me I feel that there are some things related to child birth and post partum both physically and emotionally that it takes another person who has gone through the same experience to support you and for me I prefer that to be my mom."
"My partner has been quite helpful throughout this journey and I expect he will be a great father but it matters to me for my mom to be there during that transition period into parenthood."
"My post was under the expectation that we delivery within a week or 10 days of each other. Of course if the gap between our deliveries is longer (either I deliver early or she delivers late) then I would be fine with her leaving."
"Even in the case that I am recovering well but my SIL has a difficult delivery or something I could understand her staying longer in that scenario."
"My feelings are just if we both have normal deliveries in a short span I feel she should stay with me longer and I don't know if I am wrong for feeling that way."
The OP summed up their situation.
"I feel I may have been selfish when I told my mom not to spend as much time with my SIL for her delivery as she would have with me at that point because it is normal in our culture for a woman's mother to help her throughout the pregnancy, delivery, and care of baby initially, especially if it is the first pregnancy."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA) or there were no a**holes here (NAH).
"NTA I don't think a lot of people on this subReddit are going to get the cultural aspect."
"My mom still talks about how her mom stayed with her and my dad, she'd wake up when I cried, change me, clean me up and take me to my mom for feeding then put me back in the crib for her to maximize her sleep and handled all the cooking and just generally nurtured her (and me by extension)."
"Your mom's first obligation in my culture at least would be to you, except that your brother is making a demand and your mom is probably used to giving him what he wants and expecting you to be the bigger person."
"I'd emphasize to your mom that SIL has already had a child, she has parents of her own, and it's not right that you shouldn't get the benefit of your mom when you need her more than ever."
"There aren't a lot of perks in my culture for women, but mom helping with a new baby? That's one of the very few." ~ SnooPets8873
"This. Exactly this. Plus, SIL is demanding that she won't miss a single day of traditional cultural support for her second baby, by withdrawing that support from first time mom OP. It's appalling."
"SIL is demanding that OP do without her own mother's support for the first few weeks of her very first baby, so that SIL doesn't do without for her second."
"When Op's mother leaves, SIL's own mother would arrive to help with her second baby, while OP wouldn't have her own mother around for weeks. It's appalling that SIL would demand such a thing." ~ Shdfx1
"I think this differs from culture to culture. In mine, we stay with the guys parents after marriage and if the relationship between the ILs and SOs are good, they treat each other as own parents/children."
"That combined with the fact that they're in a new country can lead to a lot of stress/being scared and wanting a motherly presence. I do agree with the statement that it's the SIL's 2nd pregnancy and OP needs her mother more based on that."
"I'd still say NAH though. It's understandable that the brother and SIL would want a motherly presence/help." ~ EragonShadeSlayer18
"NTA, this is your FIRST pregnancy. This is sil second. You should take priority on this alone. Not because hers is any less important, but because you're about to be a brand new mom, sil has a baby she has some idea as to what to expect, etc..." ~ steelemyheart2011
"NAH. I don't think anyone is the a-hole here. I think you mom loves you and your SIL and wants to be there for you both."
"She's caught between a rock and a hard place and doesn't know what to do. Hopefully the VISA issue will be resolved in time and your SIL's mom will be able to come." ~ Turbulent_Cow2355
"NAH. Your mom is going to do the best she can to support both her children and their families. Please don't make her feel guilty for trying her best."
"Ideally there would not be this overlap in postpartum weeks, but life happens.
"SIL will also have a young child at home with the new baby. She needs support just as much or maybe even more."
"Those first weeks are a blur. She'll be back before you know it. Best of luck." ~ Suitable-Park184
"Brother and SIL can hire a nurse or a doula type person since this is their second child. Hell, brother can help out."
"It's his kid. I think brother is a jerk for putting their mum in this position given this is OP's first baby and is the daughter."
"NTA, and this shouldn't be an issue. Her mum should be helping OP as part of their cultural mores. Besides, we don't know when she's giving birth, SIL is giving birth, and how well birth and recovery will go." ~ sikonat
The OP and her mom are in a difficult position. Hopefully they can come to an understanding with her brother and sister-in-law.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp