The laws about child support vary from state to state and country to country.
As such, the laws about support enforcement—when the government becomes involved in ensuring a parent pays their court ordered support—vary as well.
Can a parent "refund" support that was collected by support enforcement? Is a parent saying support enforcement garnished their entire paycheck likely telling the truth?
A parent turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback after their ex-husband requested a refund of child support money.
Hipposatmidnight asked:
"AITA for not giving my kids' dad lunch money?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I (26, female) divorced my ex husband (26, male) about four years ago. We share 2 children, a son and a daughter."
"We were high school sweethearts. Things didn't start getting nasty until after my oldest was born and I was on birth control—IUD—when I got pregnant with my second."
"During our divorce hearing, we were able to work out custody, visitation and child support arrangements. He agreed to give me full custody of the kids and he would pay child support."
"I didn't demand custody. I tried to give him 50-50 and he wasn't interested."
"Even tried to do it again this past summer when he was consistently coming around and he said no because he didn't want to have to hire a babysitter to go to work."
"After the divorce he decided to up and move to Nashville to chase his 'music career' that never existed. He managed to work his way up to almost $6,000 behind on his child support, went 7 months without a phone call or visit."
"When he moved back, I let him start seeing the kids as soon as he asked—2 weeks after he arrived in our state. I try to always remind myself that my relationship with him is not the kids' relationship with him."
"Anyway, fast forward to now, his grandfather has been paying his child support monthly—according to his grandmother and aunt—so that he doesn't lose his license or go to jail."
"He went out and got a job about 2 months ago and the lady assigned to our case is great at her job, so even though he did not report his job, she knew he was working. His grandfather pays the monthly amount on the last day of every month, so I received December's amount on December 31st."
"On January 3rd, I received another payment to that account and approximately 30 minutes after the notification my children's father starts calling me asking for the money back because it was a mistake payment."
"I simply explained that I couldn't give the money back, but if he reached out to child support I would be okay with them giving it back. The conversation continues until he admits that they have started garnishing his wages."
"He proceeds to tell me that they took his entire paycheck, he can't buy lunch, or put gas in his car. He wants me to 'give $200 back' and he will 'allow me to keep the extra $82'."
"I simply stated that I didn't think it was fair to give the money back when they had credited his account for paying that amount. I also informed him that I do not use that card for personal reasons and all of the money is used on the kids wants and needs."
"Both of my kids' birthdays are in January, I had already told the kids that we will go to a waterpark for a weekend, so if I keep the money that's what it will be used on."
"He started calling me names and telling me that I'm impossible and never happy."
"So am I the a**hole for not giving my ex husband lunch money because he claims they took his whole check?"
"Just worried that because I am not struggling (like he is), maybe I should have given him something. Not needing his financial support is 100% due to my career."
"I provide all of their food, clothes, and housing needs out of my income. 90% of the support money is used to let the kids pick out their own toys—for example my daughter was in Walmart and wants to be a fashion designer, so she got to buy a sewing machine."
"I really hope that as he gets older he will start to mature and grasp responsibilities."
The OP summed up their situation.
"I did not give back the money he was asking for. Considering that I may be the a**hole because if I have the money, should I have at least gave him something to be able to buy food and gas?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was definitely not the a**hole (NTA).
"Okay, HR Payroll person here…they did NOT take his whole check. They have garnished his wages and are deducting for back pay as well, but we always get a support notice that is limited in what we can deduct as they have to leave him so much to live off of."
"He's gaslighting you for more money."
"Also now that he's been served, if he quits to 'Run from the support' he will lose his license and any tax returns he is suppose to get until back pay is completed and his support responsibilities are met!" ~ Existing_Bedroom_496
"NTA. If he's so desperate, he should go ask Grandpa for money, not his kids." ~ Seed_Planter72
"NTA. First, they do not take his whole check. They never would. I think it is up to 30%, but it would be different everywhere…but NEVER the whole check."
"He is scamming you."
"Second, he doesn't get to take money back that is spent on his kids. No one does. Once it is gone, it's gone. You owe him nothing. He owes your children sooooo much."
"Crazy that he gets to go off and live single, follow his dreams and leave you with ALL responsibilities, then have the nerve to come back and make demands."
"You have been great in your responses. Keep them logical and try and keep your emotions out of it. They just fuel him. When it comes up again I might respond with something like…"
"'I'm sorry you are struggling but you and I have separate lives, and I have nothing to do with your finances and you have nothing to do with mine. I am 100% responsible for our children's needs 100% of the time'."
"'Getting a little money from you helps, but I don't count on it. When I get it, they get the extras they need right away. Sorry that left you strapped. I have been in your position many times over the years'."
"On repeat." ~ OhmsWay-71
"NTA. Definitely report it to the caseworker so they can document him trying to manipulate you." ~ htdio123456
"NTA. I'm not from the US and haven't visited the country since 2001, so I am unfamiliar with prices there, but $200 seems like a lot for lunch." ~ Effective_Trouble_69
The OP provided a small update.
"I did assume he was lying and I was able to look up that my local laws are 33% of a paycheck is the maximum. I also made a phone call to the case manager."
"He definitely did not tell the truth. She said that his paycheck was garnished correctly, and she called his employer to check."
"She also said that if he has a problem with his paychecks being garnished, then he should've made a phone call to her not to me. I'm so glad that I listened and made the phone call."
"But then again, I still knew he was struggling. I have decided that I made the correct decision to keep the money for the kids, but I decided that with the help of the comments."
"So thank you everyone."
"I have ended all communication between him and I. I allow him to call the kids on their personal devices but I have ended all visitation, told him he can take me to court because I'm not paying my lawyer more until I actually see effort and feel like I need to."
"My daughter is eight and told me that he sleeps until lunchtime so he never makes some breakfast or lunch. She provides it for her and her brother."
"My daughter called him on Christmas Eve to ask if she could come see him and he screamed at her at the top of his lungs because he hadn't bought Christmas presents yet and he wasn't ready to see them for Christmas."
"I made a small compromise that he was allowed to come to my house to give the children their gifts, but the children are not going with him. If he would like to see his children, then we can go back to court and get him supervised visitation."
"When he moved to Nashville, he decided to claim my kids on his taxes and I went through a ton of sh*t with the IRS to prove my kids lived with me, so he's literally going to be facing fraud charges along with being required to pay back all of the money he received."
"My lawyer has a copy of my notebook detailing every interaction, missed payment, and missed visit."
"Although, child support paid or missed has nothing to do with visitation, it is something I am doing strictly because I feel it is the best thing for my kids at this time."
"It's hard to do it alone mentally sometimes but I have a very great support system and job. If I'm being totally honest I wish he was out of our lives completely."
"He's not interested in seeing the children. The kids are in therapy. I started it when he originally moved out."
Hopefully, things will turn out better for these children.
It's hard when a parent doesn't seem interested in spending time with you.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp