No matter how well a relationship works, usually the members of the couple will like some things that the other person doesn't like.
And while enjoying different restaurants or loving horror movies might not be a deal breaker, it's still fun to find a way to enjoy these things, even if you can't enjoy them with your partner, reasoned out the users of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor ThaiMaster44 had noticed that he and his wife liked most of the same restaurants, but there were a few that he liked that she abhorred so much, she would create a scene every time they tried to go there.
To avoid causing a scene, to still enjoy the food, and to get some quality time with his daughters, the Original Poster (OP) started having daddy-daughter dates at these restaurants, at least until his wife accused him of intentionally leaving her out of family time.
He asked the sub:
"AITAH for going out without my wife and making her feel excluded?"
The OP and his wife did not like eating out at all the same restaurants.
"My wife (32 Female) and I (37 Male) both work full-time jobs and have two kids together (7 Female and 5 Female)."
"As a family, we like going out to eat; it passes the time, the girls have fun, and it's mostly great. Mostly..."
"Here's the problem, though: I feel like my wife just doesn't like many of the restaurants I like."
"First, she's a pretty picky eater, so no fish, no seafood, no sushi. Also, over time, she slowly started vetoing the places I like for various reasons."
"The pizza place I like? Oh, they mixed up her order, so she yelled at the waiter, made a scene, and swore never to come back. That BBQ place I like? Oh, that's too expensive. That Thai restaurant? Oh, we always go there (we went there five times these past seven years, I counted)."
"Somehow, there's always a reason not to go to the places I want to go. And for a while, we didn't. So I just didn't go. I'm an introverted person and don't have many friends to go with, and over time, I just stopped going to places I liked to avoid the fight."
When his daughters expressed an interest in these restaurants, he found a way to go again.
"But now? Now I have two girls who love going to these places."
"They're happy to go whenever, so every few weeks, we do a 'dad date' where we go to one of the places my wife doesn't like."
"This has been going on for a few months, and it's been a blast. I get to go to the restaurants I like, my daughters eat all kinds of foods they otherwise wouldn't, and I don't have to try convincing my wife to go places she doesn't want. Everybody wins!"
Then the OP's wife started complaining about the "dad dates," too.
"But now my wife says she feels excluded."
"I told her she's welcome to join us, I just want to go to these places I enjoy, and I'm happy I get to. I'd rather she come, but I'm okay if she doesn't; it's not like we don't go out together, too."
"She says I intentionally go to these places to exclude her because I know she wouldn't come."
"I explained that it's not my fault she declared a blood vendetta on the waiter who had the audacity to bring her a regular Coke when she asked for a diet (she asked for a regular, I was literally there, but that's a whole other fight), and she called me names."
"So now she's been sulking for hours, and I'm not sure if I should stop doing those 'dad dates' for a while, though frankly, I don't want to stop, and I don't think I'm being spiteful or unreasonable."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that it was awesome that he was spending time with his daughters.
"NTA. Most women would adore Dad taking the kids on dates and giving them time to themselves. At least I do." - numbnumbsue
"NTA. What a wonderful way to hang out with your daughters. They will always remember these fun times with you. Maybe your wife needs to do similar experiences with your daughters, doing something you are not joyful about."
"Generally, your wife is being unreasonable here." - PipcosRevenge
"Don't you dare stop the Daddy-Daughter Dates! These are giving you and your little girls memories to last a lifetime, and they will KNOW how precious they were to you."
"Your wife should start a similar tradition with them, like a 'Girls' Night.' And of course, you still need to keep Family Night for them."
"But please, please also have Date Night for just you and your spouse, to show the girls that their mother is as special to you as they are. It will show them that they are being raised in love and respect for each member of the family."
"While I understand that your wife's issue with the waiter was wrong, please let it go. Time to make better memories with her, rather than holding on to old resentments." - dannykel
"OP is for sure NTA. I'm a 43-year-old male, and my dad is now 62. I wish there were something comparable to daddy dates in my life when I was young. I would have taken literally anything that involved spending time with him."
"He was a career military (22 years). While I was growing up, he was always deployed, or on a six-month cruise, or had duty. It added up to what I consider an absent father. We were fed, educated, and housed, of course, but when he was home with us, he, of course, knew nothing about us."
"Time spent together always felt like interviews just so he could catch up with who we were becoming… then 'until we meet again.'"
"OP is giving his children what I would argue a lot of children never benefit from: a present father."
"This is not a woe is me type comment, although it kinda looks like it. Both my father and I are in good health, and I hope that someday I get the time with him on the back end that he was unable to give on the front end." - spidey2091
"From the time my daughter was four, until she was 10, my wife would have to work some Saturdays. My Daughter and I would have 'Hotdog Saturday.' It was originally an excuse for me to try different hotdog joints all over the city without my wife (who is not a hot dog fan), but it definitely became a bonding experience for my daughter and me. She still talks about it." - astrojmb
"Every time I get any kind of weekday off, it is 'Dad-daughter zoo day.' We spent the day at the zoo. She is five years old now and has probably been to the zoo like 30 times. It never gets old. I am positive she will remember these days when she is older and knows how much I cherished those times with her." - Trumperekt
Others agreed and imagined that the OP's wife must be insufferable.
"NTA. I wouldn't want to go to a place where my partner would cause a scene either. Let her sulk. Maybe a timeout would be good for her." - ParanoidWalnut
"NTA... your wife sounds miserable as f**k. Screaming at a waitress for bringing her the Coke she asked for instead of the Diet Coke she ordered in her head? That's a different level of crazy."
"Does she ever have any input or ideas on where to go? Cuz there's nothing more annoying than someone that's always complaining but never offers up any solutions." - 2npac
"NTA. Your wife sounds insufferable. One of the biggest red flags about someone is treating wait staff and other service workers poorly."
"I watch for this on dates. If you're rude to any service worker or waitstaff, that's a hard pass for me."
"NTA, you're giving her some alone time while you take the kids to places everyone but her wants to go. She's being unreasonable."
"I hope you keep taking your kids on dad dates. That's so good for you and the kids to bond like this. They'll cherish these memories and will probably be more adventurous eaters because of it." - Christine4000
"NTA at all. Your wife, on the other hand... She sounds exhausting. Dude, you are absolutely allowed to go and dine at places without your wife. She doesn't like the cuisine or that particular restaurant? Fine, not a problem, you can go without her, it's perfectly fine."
"She's just being difficult, she needs to stop being a selfish d**k." - WonderfulNecessary81
"As a bartender, I can't stand your wife. I've never met a good person who yells at service staff because of a mistake."
"People make mistakes every day in their jobs, people with far more consequential results than misringing your food, too. But people feel real big and important when someone forgets their ranch dressing and acts like you just punched their kid in the face. It's a bad look. Treat people with respect even when they f**k up."
"But also, NTA. She is included. She just chooses not to be included because she doesn't like the things you like."
"My wife and I like different things, and if one of us wants to do something with our kid that the other doesn't like, we either go along and spend time together regardless, or we don't care if the other person stays home/goes without us. You're both adults. She's acting like a child." - AwkwardCalendar131
Few fellow Redditors could understand where the wife was coming from, as the OP explained that they still frequently went out to dinner at restaurants that she or both of them liked.
By taking his daughters to dinner, he not only got quality time with them and was able to model to them how they should be treated some day on dates, but he also got to enjoy restaurants he wouldn't otherwise get to go to if it was left up to his wife.
More than likely, the subReddit theorized, the wife either was struggling with some kind of attachment or rejection sensitivity, or she had control issues, any of which would be difficult to navigate in a healthy relationship.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp