Not everybody wants a big family. Heck, the rate at which couples and single people are choosing not to procreate is on the rise. So much so, that some countries are calling it a health crisis.
More couples who do choose to have a family are having less.
Kids are expensive!
The one-and-done rule is in full swing for many new parents.
And that can be an issue with certain family members.
Redditor Longjumping_Stop_606 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback, so naturally he came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
He asked:
"AITA for flipping out on my mom for talking to my son about becoming a big brother?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My (38 M[ale]) wife (38 F[emale]) and I have one child together, a 6-year-old son."
"When we got married, we agreed we both only wanted one child."
"A few years ago, my wife got her tubes tied.'
"I also got a vasectomy last year, just to cover all bases across the board."
"We didn't announce this to the family, but it also wasn't a secret."
"We've had a few people ask if we're having another and that's usually when it comes up."
"I am one of 6 siblings."
"Our mother was one of 8 kids."
"Most of my siblings have had at least 3 children, if not more."
"Only my brother is also 1 and done."
"Our mother struggles to accept this and has said several times that we'll change our minds."
"Even knowing that my wife and I physically cannot have more children, she'll always bring up adoption or say that my procedure could be reversed, etc."
"My brother and I always shut it down, and I have told her we're not changing our minds, etc."
"Recently, she was babysitting my son while my wife and I went out."
"We picked him up after and on the car ride, out of nowhere, my son started crying and asking if we were having another baby."
"We said 'no.'"
"He said that his grandmother kept asking him if he wanted a baby sister and saying that we should have another baby, he could be a 'big helper,' etc."
"We got home rather quickly, consoled him, and promised him we weren't having another baby, and that his grandmother never should've told him this."
"I called my mom and got on her about this, telling her she stooped low by getting our son involved."
"She said that we're overreacting, and his crying over potentially getting another sibling is ridiculous, and we're raising a spoiled child."
"I argued no, he's a sensitive kid who doesn't do great with change, and she scared him."
"I told her that until I can trust that she won't say these things to him, her babysitting privileges have been revoked and she'll only be around him if my wife or I are there."
"My brother backs me up on this."
"Apparently, our mother tried the same thing with his son, and it led to a similar argument on their end."
"Our sisters think we're overreacting and that this is a natural question, and my mom is right that it shouldn't have upset my son so much."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. No, she was overstepping and massively."
"Like WTAF????? Can't go around saying s**t like that to a 6-year-old."
"Honestly, seems like an appropriate reaction to her grandmotherly shenanigans."
"I'd cool off and take some space from her as well after that."
"Oh, and your heavily childrened sisters are wrong." ~ ReviewOk929
"And the second that she mentions it again, end the visit."
"My husband and I are child-free by choice and my husband's aunt will not let that s**t go."
"We've asked, cajoled, and pleaded for her to respect our decision and stop trying to convince us that we need kids to complete our lives."
"So now any time it comes up, we just leave."
"Mid-dinner, in public, holidays, 5 seconds after we walk in the door, it doesn't matter; we just grab our stuff, announce loudly that we've told her before that we're not having a conversation about children again, and leave." ~ The_lunar_witch
"When my brother married his wife, my mom wondered aloud to me and my younger brother if first brother and S[ister]-I[n]-L[aw] would have kids."
"My younger brother made it very clear that the subject should never be brought up in front of first brother and SIL."
"They will not be having children."
"My mother tried several times to talk about it, but I and my younger brother shut her down immediately."
"I don't know why my first brother and SIL are childfree, but I'm not going to ask."
"It isn't my business."
"If my mom tries to talk about it and my first brother and SIL walk out, I wouldn't blame them." ~ springsummerfall2016
"We had to do this all the time with my grandma."
"She had 8 kids and could not get over me being an only child (due to my mom's endometriosis)."
"Always asking me if I wished I had a bro or sis."
"Fast forward to my early 20s, and she's telling me I don't have to be married to have kids and putting her hand on my belly, asking if there's a baby in there."
"It got to the point where if she brought it up (or any of a number of topics with her), we'd leave."
"She'd know why and just didn't care, would keep bringing it up every time." ~ kino-glaz
"I've noticed two common emotional reactions to big families: the people loved loud, bustling, busy households and thrived in it or they felt small, ignored, overwhelmed, like they constantly had to compete, etc."
"I personally didn't mind being one of four kids and now having a ton of nieces and nephews."
"I can live comfortably in chaos."
"Both my parents came from larger households (four and five kids, respectively), and they had four."
"However, I still want zero."
"I can't be responsible for someone else's emotional well-being 24/7."
"My number is zero."
"There are also financial considerations."
"Life is expensive."
"There's no reason to presume A) your kid wants that loud household and feels they thrived in it..."
"B) feels they will be a good parent to any number of children, or..."
"C) feels they can afford any number of children." ~ DefinitelyNotAliens
"My mother was one of 13 children, my father an only child, I was their only child."
"My grandmother never pressured my mom about having more kids, thank goodness as our home had a rotating cast of aunts, uncles, and cousins that lived there off and on."
"NTA - Grandmother should never have put her grandson in the middle of her desire for more grandchildren."
"I'd say she needs a time-out." ~ False-Importance-741
"NTA - This is not about your son being too sensitive or whether you want /can have another child."
"This is about your mother going ridiculously over the lines and crossing boundaries."
"If she is going to cross this kind of boundary, what other boundaries is she going to cross?"
"What else is she likely going to say to your son in the future in an effort to get her away?"
"Your mother manipulated a little kid all for her benefit and that's just not right."
"Tell your sisters that they have nothing to do with this because they don't."
"This is 100% on your mother and she deserves to lose the babysitting privileges."
"All they're trying to do here is blame the victim and protect the person who crossed the line."
"The fact that she doesn't even seem apologetic is very concerning." ~ Dry-Operation-7355
"Completed justified!"
"She should've never said anything to a 6-year-old. NTA." ~ mizfit416
"Agree. To me, disrespecting boundaries is not the biggest issue here."
"She's planting biased ideas into a 6-year-old's head."
"'It is normal and natural to have siblings. It is not normal or natural not to have siblings.'"
"Imagine, she is probably very capable of teaching 'childless people are not natural,' 'unmarried people are not normal.'"
"She's also manipulating a 6-year-old child to ask parents to have more children." ~ p9nultimat9
"NTA. I think revoking her 'privileges' is a good idea for now."
"On this topic, it's a moot point, but if she's doing this then who knows what other manipulations she may try that involve the child."
"In addition to reinforcing with her that you are not having more children, it's also fine to reassure your son that you are not having more children and you would never make such a decision without telling him first."
"Encourage him to share with you anything concerning that she might say to him, and remind him about the time she was 'confused/ wrong' about you having more children." ~ 1962Michael
"NTA. It's weird to me that she's been yelled at about this once before, yet did it again."
"Also, not that anyone is owed grandchildren but it's safe to assume she has, what, at least 14 grandchildren if each of your sisters has at least 3 then you and your brother have 1."
"How many grandchildren does she want/think she can reasonably spend time with???" ~ snowmikaelson
"I love when adults start policing whether a child SHOULD or SHOULDN'T have feelings about something."
"Like tell me you need therapy without telling me."
"NTA you guys are doing the right thing." ~ Dense-Passion-2729
"NTA. Wow, your mother is so out of line I am sorry for your kid, for your wife, and for yourself."
"You did well to draw a line and make sure it never happens again." ~ Riyokosan
"You are NTA."
"Your sisters need to put all of their energy into raising their many children and stop interfering in this situation."
"You are wise to ensure that your mother is never alone with your son." ~ EmceeSuzy
"Easy NTA, she's delusional and cruel to go to your child and try to manipulate a situation she cannot change."
"Definitely keep her privileges revoked."
"She cannot be trusted around your child."
"I got my tubes tied immediately after my son was born and nobody better say anything to me about having a second kid." ~ IAmTAAlways
"NTA. Your mom was trying to manipulate your son into begging for a sibling, and it backfired in a big way."
"Your mom sucks, and obviously she doesn't respect boundaries at all." ~ Netflickingthebean
"NTA. Your sisters have some messed up boundary issues if they think this is a natural question and even more so that your mother was manipulating a child."
"You are 100% doing the right thing protecting your child." ~ Laines_Ecossaises
"NTA. I'm sorry that the women in your family of origin are stupid and terrible."
"Also: your mother has ELEVEN grandchildren and thinks it's not enough?"
"What planet is she from?" ~ Middle_Raspberry2499
"NTA at all, and I'm glad you and your wife are united on this and have given her consequences for her actions."
"And this is not 'a natural question' to pose to a 6-year-old." ~ TemptingPenguin369
"Definitely NTA and you are handling this extremely well."
"You've communicated your boundaries repeatedly and now she is dealing with the deserved consequences of blatantly disrespecting them."
"She was insanely out of line, and it's her fault your son was upset, not yours." ~ PBCupsFan77
"Your mother is a disrespectful, manipulative woman who does not care how you feel."
"Tell your sisters where to stick their opinions." ~ WhereWereUChilds
"NTA. You guys are one and done."
"Your mother should respect you and your partner."
"What she said to your son is low." ~ OkForm9038
"I can't even imagine how your mom would be unaccepting if anyone in the family has an unmarried or childless or non-traditional lifestyle. NTA." ~ p9nultimat9
"Woah. This did not go how I expected."
"I thought the M[other]-I[n]-L[aw] had just outed a pregnancy early to the son."
"But this is NUTS. NTA." ~ The_Balmy_Bee
Your mom has put you in a messy situation, OP. Reddit has your back.
She had no right to do what she did. You're not punishing her out of spite.
You set up boundaries to protect your son. She has a lot of soul-searching to do.
You keep doing you.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp