After a divorce, the formerly married couple can maintain a friendship or become adversaries. How the relationship ended influences the future relationship a great deal.
A divorce after infidelity? That rarely leads to friendship.
A father turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback after his ex-wife asked him for a favor.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However there are no required voting acronyms—only suggested ones—and no official final judgment declared.
Scottshy asked:
"WIBTAH if I refuse to babysit my ex-wife's child in an emergency?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I (30, male) have a child with my ex-wife (30, female). We married young, had our child young, and then she cheated on me with her current husband."
"After the divorce, she had a child with her husband. I have never had any kind of relationship or presence in this child's life."
"I communicate with my ex-wife through an app called OurFamilyWizard and we see each other very infrequently. I keep things civil when I do see her or her husband for the sake of my child, but I do not pretend to be friends and I have no respect for either of them."
"My ex-wife's husband was recently diagnosed with cancer. She told me this in person at a school event for our child."
"While telling me, she admitted they did not have a support network anymore and they had some concerns about what would happen in an emergency with their child. She asked if I would be willing to babysit in an emergency situation since our child will be dropped off to me in the event of one anyway."
"I told her I would not and I would appreciate if she didn't ask me again. But ask me again she did, before I could leave."
"She told me I did not understand the lack of support they have and how their child should be protected the same as our child. She told me I surely wouldn't say no in an actual emergency."
"I told her to have something else in place for an emergency and not to rely on me because I do not want to be left caring for her child with the man she cheated on me with. I told her she needed to let it go before our child picked up on any tension."
"She texted me afterward and said I need to reconsider, because they have no other options. I replied that my answer was still no and to please use the app only going forward."
"My attorney said it was the right move because it's documented in case she ever tries to drop her child off with me. He has filed it away in case we ever need it in the future."
"This isn't about the legal aspect though. I wonder if my refusal would make me an a**hole in an actual emergency when according to her nobody would babysit their child."
"My ex-wife is clearly very stressed, so maybe I'm not showing the compassion I should. I find it hard to have any for them after everything they did."
"But the child wasn't a part of it and my lack of concern for the child might be a**hole worthy especially in an emergency situation."
"WIBTAH?"
The OP later added:
"She said they have no support network anymore, so I assume no relationships within their families. Can't answer for friends or neighbors but she said they have no support system."
"I made it clear that I would care for our child for as long as was needed. My ex didn't appreciate that because she said her other child needed care too."
"I would of course be concerned for my child. It's still helping, because then she only needs to figure care out for one of her kids, not two."
"My child is not close to their half sibling."
"I don't want to give ages, but my child is not close to their half sibling. I can't answer whether they truly love them or not."
"They may and just not be close or maybe there's no bond at all there. I can say, they do not play with their half sibling or include them even at their mother's house."
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP wasn't wrong to refuse to take their ex's child (NTA).
"Leaving the child with a stranger they have no relationship with who wants nothing to do with them is not actually in the best interest of the child. OP is not punishing the child at all by saying no. NTA."
"The ex and her husband can work with the hospital social worker to come up with a plan, they could start working with a local babysitter, they could talk to parents of their child's friends to see if thats an option, or they could just bring the child to the hospital in the event of an emergency." ~ Spirited_Meringue_80
"Her idea of an emergency is going to be her husband's chemo. Or whatever treatment he has to go through. This will not be a one-time thing and one night thing. She's looking to you to bridge the gap between all the other stuff going on. Keep your peace." ~ jessies_girl__
"They need to speak to the social worker at the hospital where he is receiving treatment to see what services might be available to them." ~ TarzanKitty
"If she brings it up in person again, I'd suggest replying thru the family app to make it clear the answer is no. Suggest talking to a social worker via the app as well."
"That way it's documented that you've declined AND shows there's alternate options she can explore that don't involve you." ~ DgShwgrl
"Why is the rest of that kid's mom's family saying no, or her husband's, the kid's father's family, saying no? The kid has family that is blood related that is also telling them no.
"It's not on OP to take on that burden. She can lay in the bed she made for herself." ~ Meakbow
"People get estranged from their families all the time for any number of reasons, but they both did? And they're incapable of making friends in their personal or professional lives or being friendly with a neighbor?"
"Either these are two really horrible people, in which case I'd not trust them, or they're trying to take advantage of OP."
"Why bother making arrangements with a friend, coworker, or neighbor when they can dump their kid on OP?"
"OP doesn't know this child, this child doesn't know OP, and he's not on good terms with their parents."
"How is he supposed to discipline this child if it's needed? Or comfort them? This is a situation to avoid, not just for OP's well-being, but also for the child's. There are a multitude of other, better options." ~ MohawMais
"If she doesn't have any friends, she can establish a relationship with a babysitter who can get to know her other child, and she can pay someone to take the child when needed."
"If she wants someone to do it for free, she should have treated you better. This is the price she is paying for her infidelity. She doesn't get to ask you for favors after cheating on you." ~ miyuki_m
"I'm kind of wondering how she's managed to eliminate everyone in her and her affair partner now hubby's life so that you are now her only resort." ~ roadfood
"I'm guessing she hasn't really exhausted all other possibilities."
"She may feel it would be easier on the younger child to stay with the older. Then, there's a convenience factor in dropping both kids off at the same address and only having to communicate with one person."
"I think she's likely also trying to inchworm her little snookie-poogums into her ex's life in the hope that he'll catch feelings for the child and become willing to co-parent should the outcome for her husband prove poor." ~ Constant_Host_3212
"The real answer is buried in her statement that OP would be taking his child anyway. It is just easier for her to have one person take both kids." ~ KLG999
"The child wouldn't know him or his home, so would likely be uncomfortable with the arrangement. But it's convenient for the ex. Sounds like she's as selfish as ever, putting her child's needs behind her convenience." ~ BlazingSunflowerland
"She could establish relationships with the parents of the other kids in half sibling's class. At least this way, the kids would know each other and the half sib would hopefully be more comfortable there than if left with a complete stranger." ~ Aggravating-Sock6502
"Don't suggest anything. Just keep out of it. They are capable of making their own arrangements. You have said No. Leave it at that." ~ thussprak
"I think you need to look deeper into what's going on here. It's likely that in the back of her mind, this is her first attempt at setting up a back up plan in case the worst happens with her husband. She might be money branching."
"I hesitate to suggest this because I don't know if she would be left hanging if her husband didn't make it. But if so, take this much more seriously."
"Think about it. They've had someone for emergencies up to now. What changed all the sudden?"
"She could be thinking of you as a soft place to land. If she can only get you to develop a connection to her affair partner's child, it might work. She could reel you in when his treatment doesn't work."
"How much do you want to bet that she starts trying to lean on you for support? You fell for her once, why not again in her mind? Especially if you never remarried."
"NTA. You don't want to get anything started with this woman, right?" ~ West-Double3646
If the only option is leaving a child with a person they don't know, hiring a professional is better than trying to coerce and ex.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp