Having kids changes a person's life forever.
Kids can restrict a lot of personal freedom.
They can really put a damper on time with friends.
Often, parents bring their kids along to many places.
This doesn't always go over well.
Redditor Obvious_Grapefruit94 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback, so naturally, she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"WIBTA if I asked my friend to stop bringing her kids at every hangout?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"Background: My friend (27, female) and I (27, female) have been close since our freshman year of high school."
"She had her first kid at 19 and her second at 24."
"Her beautiful kids are ~6 years and 3 years old today."
"I have NO kids and don't plan to have any anytime soon."
"WIBTA if I asked her to stop bringing her two kids to every hangout?"
"I want to talk about explicit things and just regular girl things, but feel uncomfortable sharing that type of stuff around her kids."
"Also, I love her kids, but they are so annoying and always crying/throwing tantrums."
"I really don't have the patience (that's why I don't have kids!)."
"How do I respectfully ask her to stop bringing her kids to EVERY hangout?"
"Or at least imply it?"
"She has a great support system and is actually married!"
"I deeply care about my friend and her kids."
"We hang out 2-3x a year."
"I always make sure to plan our hangouts one month in advance! "
"And check in as the date approaches because I know life happens, especially with kids."
The OP summed up why they might be the a**hole in their situation.
"I’ll be asking my friend to stop bringing her kids to every hangout. It might make me an a**hole because she might get offended that I don’t want to see her kids."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - more information needed
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"I think it might be better to word it as 'Do you want to plan a day to hang out with the kids? I enjoy being around them, but you need adult hangout time too.'"
"Something like that."
"Less of a 'I don't want you to do this.'"
"And more of a 'treat yourself' type of thing." ~ Slipsndslops
"NAH. As long as you understand that she won’t be able to come to a lot of these hangouts if she doesn’t bring her kids." ~ ConflictGullible392
"Hard to imagine anyone saying this to a father - that they have to have their kids attached to their hip 24/7."
"OP states in another response that this friend has a great support system."
"There is no reason to assume the friend has to have her kids with her all the time." ~ milee30
"There are so many people responding as if it’s OP’s responsibility to provide childcare for her friend."
"Every mom has done this analysis of buying, trading, arranging for childcare, or making plans when the other parent keeps the kids."
"Having children doesn’t suddenly make it like the friend is a three-headed monster." ~ SlinkyMalinky20
"Agreed. She might think that since you see each other so infrequently, you probably want to see the kids, too."
"Her kids are young. Still at the age where they are growing and changing quickly, and she probably likes her friends to see them as they grow up."
"I know I did when my kids were little."
"It’s kind of hard to explain, but you’re just so proud of them, you kind of want to show them off and have your friends and family love them too."
"As a young mom, it takes a while to realize that maybe not everyone finds your children as amazing and special as you do. 😆."
"I certainly felt that way when mine were little and cute!"
"Now they’re teenagers and grumpy. 😬." ~ mmagnussen1213
"For the love of God, don't imply."
"Just tell her." ~ ZookeepergameNo7151
"You would not be the a**hole if you ask respectfully. Wanting occasional adult-only time with your friend is completely reasonable."
"The key is making it about wanting one-on-one friend time, not about her kids being annoying."
"Something like 'I miss having uninterrupted girl time with you' will land much better than focusing on the children themselves."
"Also, be prepared for the possibility that childcare is difficult or expensive, and that she may not always be able to make it work."
"A lot of friendships shift when one person has kids, and the other does not, and nobody is necessarily wrong for that." ~ Impressive_Ebb7245
"NTA for wanting it."
"But I know--from experience--if she's always bringing them along and never herself setting up girls' time, it's probably not going to happen." ~ FeistyChickadee
"NAH. Specifically ask her to make a day to hang out without kids."
"Don't make plans and then ask her not to bring her kids to those".
"And understand the answer may be no."
"But if she has had kids since 19 and has brought them to every hangout, are you sure she even wants to hang out and talk about explicit things like she did <19?"
"You might find that you don't have as much in common anymore."
"And how did she have a kid at 19?"
"She's 27 now, and the kid is 6?" ~ Usrname52
"This is what happens when your friends have kids."
"This is why lots of people lose touch with their high school/college friends."
"It is only going to get worse as far as her time demands... There will be soccer practice, school plays, and she will have less and less time to get together."
"Maybe try to plan a special girls' once or twice a year... but my advice is: find friends who are childless."
"You will get together more often." ~ dell828
"NTA. But... does she not have childcare?"
"If she's a single mom, I'd probably give her more grace."
"Maybe ask for visits at her house or areas with kid-safe zones so they can run around, and you have more time to chat." ~ Angry1980Christmas
"Just say you want a girl's day, just you and her - some drinks over brunch or dinner, whatever works."
"I'm guessing her bd doesn't help, and/or she's got no one to leave the kids with, so be prepared for her to say it's not doable. "
"Might be a while before you get your friend back".
"Maybe when the kids are older."
"I'm 38 now and still child-free, so believe me, I've lost quite a few friends to motherhood and especially useless or absent birthdays." ~ justahopelessgirl
"NAH - Nothing wrong with wanting it, but you have to understand that she can't just have impromptu visits without them, as she'd need a sitter, or her partner/parents, etc., to be home and willing to watch them."
"It can also be expensive if she's laying someone."
"With young kids, it is hard to just have alone time."
"She is likely grateful just to be out of the house for a bit."
"So when you do ask her this, try to make sure you reassure her that you value the time spent with her, but that you'd like to organize a proper girl's night. "
"Give her advance notice so she can actually sort some plans out." ~ Arlen90
"I'm a mom, and I absolutely understand not always bringing my kids to every hangout."
"If you want to spend time with her without the kids, suggest a 'girl's night' with just you two."
"Don't make it about her kids being annoying, but just wanting to be able to focus on each other and do grown-up things."
"I have a group of friends where we all leave the kids with our husbands for one night every month or two and have dinner, just us."
"It's nice."
"We also hang out as families with our kids, but parents need time away once in a while as well." ~ coatisabrownishcolor
"Come on, NTA."
"I do have children, and I won’t take them to every single hangout."
"I do also want time for myself with friends to chat and relax and have a drink… people who say YTA are people like your friend who don’t go anywhere without their children."
"Unless you’re a single parent without any kind of support… and in that case you can still hang out at hers after they’re asleep." ~ ria_ria_smook
"NAH. If it’s all the time, I imagine she doesn’t have the means to have child care or family to help."
"I’d also imagine that ANY mom who COULD have one-on-one time with their girlfriend WOULD."
"Friendships change when people have kids, but it’s only a season in life, and it will change again."
"Most people forget that."
"A lot of people got weeded out after I had my son, and I’m not mad about it."
"But God, what I would give to be able to talk on the phone for 30 minutes without an interruption, let alone have a coffee date with a friend 😭😂 (“it’s a season, it’s a season…)."
"If you communicate in a loving way that you miss solo time together, you’ll be fine, but also, she just simply might not be able to."
"If you go about it like a jerk, you’ll be seen as a jerk."
"Life is like that." ~ mirrortree67
"NTA, but maybe you could offer to go there one evening for the catch-up, order a takeaway, and chill. It’s hard to get childcare, and I imagine she would probably appreciate child-free catch-up time too!"
"Especially if you have explicit things to tell her!" ~ Every_Celebration829
Reddit supports you, OP.
You love the kids, but you don't need to see them every time you see her.
This will probably be a sensitive conversation.
Hopefully, she'll understand.
Good Luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp