Though we all make mistakes and have to make amends for them, there are some mistakes that we cannot come back from.
It's those mistakes that can ruin relationships, even families, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
After his youngest son cheated with his eldest son's wife and then married her, Redditor ExpressPolicy734 respected his eldest son's wishes to break contact with him, even when he was diagnosed with cancer.
But when his youngest son accused him of blocking him from making amends, the Original Poster (OP) wondered if he was wrong to keep the news to himself.
He asked the sub:
"AITAH for not telling my son that his brother passed?"
The OP's oldest son broke contact with his brother after a terrible betrayal.
"My youngest son slept with his brother's wife. After my oldest son found out, he and his wife got a divorce, and my youngest married her a year later."
"My (56 Male) oldest son (33 Male) had cancer and passed away three weeks ago. Over the months leading up to his death, my youngest son (30 Male) and his wife had been trying to reconcile with my oldest, but he always made it known that he wanted nothing to do with them."
"He specifically told me that they were unforgiven, and he wouldn't forgive them just to ease their guilt."
The OP respected his oldest son's wishes.
"My son was at peace without his brother in his life. I tried my best to get them to reconcile to no avail. "
"oldest had every right to be angry with his brother, and I don't fault him for not wanting anything to do with him. My oldest was already struggling when he found out that his wife cheated on him with his brother, and it didn't help when he married her as well."
"I took the side of my son, who was wronged by people he thought he could trust. If my son showed any ounce of love and care for his brother, he wouldn't have married her. He can't try and force reconciliation when he's still married to the woman who cheated on him."
"When I kept bringing up the idea of reconciling, he used to get mad at me, so I stopped trying. I just kept telling my youngest and his wife that they had to accept that he wanted nothing to do with them and they needed to move on."
That included when the OP's oldest son lost his fight with cancer.
"When my oldest passed, I did not tell my youngest or his wife to honor his wishes. He always made it clear that they didn't deserve to mourn him in life and didn't deserve to mourn him in death either."
"About a week ago, my youngest saw his brother's obituary and called me, screaming for not telling him that his brother had passed. He told me that I denied him the opportunity to make things right and that I should've told him his brother passed."
"I told him that it would be disrespectful for him to even come in the first place, as his brother wouldn't have wanted him there, and that he and his wife denied themselves from attending. He hung up on me and blocked my number."
It created a rift between the OP and his wife.
"My wife told me that she felt guilty for not telling him and that we should've given him the opportunity to say goodbye to his brother."
"I told her that I would just find it disrespectful of us to do so, as he made it clear that he didn't want them to come."
"She told me that she understands but she's upset that our youngest is mad at us and that we should just try to put everything behind us to heal."
"I told her that what our youngest did was unforgivable, and I was not going to allow him to disrespect his brother in life and in death as well."
"My wife has been crying constantly because our son blocked us and she started blaming me as well."
"I'm hurt, but I don't regret what I did or even see what I did wrong. I feel like my youngest should just take accountability for his actions instead of blaming everyone else."
"I don't see how him attending would ever be appropriate. He didn't disrespect his brother once, but twice. My wife's the only reason we were ever in contact with him in the first place as we initially cut contact after they got married."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that he had done what his eldest son would have wanted.
"I'm so sorry for your losses. And you did the right thing. Your older son's death was about your older son and none else. It was his to run as best he may and to make the decisions that brought him as much comfort as there was."
"It would have been wrong to make your older son's last days WORSE by allowing the younger to be near him."
"Maybe ask your wife if her feeling better now would really have been more important than stealing the peace from your dying son? It's that simple. She can probably find some way to work around it because she's alive."
"You gave your older the last thing you were able to give. Good dad. Good man. Good person."
"Consequences are real. Often, they're permanent. Your younger is a selfish p.o.s. even still."
"Maybe tell your wife that she can have a relationship with the younger if she wants, but you want to hear no part of it?"
"My nanna never saw her sons in the last 27 years of her life because of a falling out with my granddad (he was a manipulative a**hole), and it broke her heart. Your wife has lost a son (as have you), and she can't withstand losing the other. That may change over time (and depends in part on the younger's words/actions)."
"For both of you, I'm so sorry. My condolences." - Lumpy_Marsupial_1559
"Your youngest stole his brother's wife. Because of that, your oldest set a boundary with him. You respected the boundary your oldest set."
"Your youngest doesn't like having a boundary, which, let's get real, he didn't respect the boundary of sleeping with his brother's wife, either."
"Your wife needs to realize that your youngest is just throwing a tantrum after being held accountable for what he did."
"This is all about your youngest not wanting to deal with the consequences of his actions. Not caring about who he hurt, as long as he got what he wanted."
"If your wife wants to be in contact with him, that's fine. But no one should ever apologize or backtrack on respecting the boundary set by your oldest." - AldusPrime
"Attending would not have been appropriate at all, instead of honoring your late son. Those in attendance would be busy gossiping about your other son and his mistress. There was no reason to turn your son's memorial into a circus."
"I think that's what the cheating son is aiming for. He sounds very self-centered. Nowhere does it say that he offered to help out by taking his brother to appointments or running errands for the family if the terminally ill son didn't want him around. Or he could have helped financially. Instead, he demanded his dying brother forgive him without any actual amends."
"And note he doesn't offer to help out with funeral costs or errands or even ask how his parents are doing. Instead, he tries to make his brother's death and funeral about himself." - exscapegoat
"You handled everything graciously and fairly. Even now, your youngest hasn't come to terms with the full magnitude of what he did. But I bet he's close."
"In the meantime, you're the outlet for his anger, and it sounds like your wife is walking that line as well. It's unfair, and you shouldn't tolerate it. Perhaps she should be grateful you kept contact with him at all. Perhaps she favored your youngest."
"I don't mean to trivialize what she's experiencing. It can't be easy, but you did nothing wrong and don't deserve any scorn."
"I'm sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry you're not being supported like you should be." - mountcrappish
"Your son made his wishes known. Your surviving son will now have to live forever with his consequences."
"This is not your or your wife's fault. She needs to let go of the blame game. Your oldest had no obligation to forgive his brother, but you both had an obligation to honor his wishes." - z-eldapin
Others hoped that the OP's wife would heal and understand with time.
"I'm so very sorry for your losses. And my condolences to your wife as well. I agree with many that her anger is misdirected at you but I feel for her as well as for you bc she's a mom who lost her son and lost the other son (Just as you)."
"I really do encourage you to get grief counseling alone or with your wife together. Please take care of yourself and your wife." - KimchiAndLemonTree
"NTA. I'm so sorry for your loss. You did right by respecting your son's final wishes even if your wife doesn't think so."
"I get she doesn't want to lose contact with her one remaining child but it was his actions that fractured your family in the first place."
"The only one she should be mad at is him." - _A-Q
"Now that the betrayed son passed away, you can bet that OP's wife wants to normalize their relationship with their younger son."
"OP, you did great for your son by respecting his wishes. Your younger son and your wife did not want your younger to face the consequences of his actions. People are not obligated to forgive the harm that was done to them. You can tell your younger that forgiveness comes AFTER redemption. Saying sorry does not count."
"OP, my condolences for your loss. Maybe go to a grief therapy together with your wife, and obviously she needs therapy." - Orsombre
"My thought is that she's having a whole lot of unresolved and unmanageable feelings around losing a son so young. It sounds like she's unable to process those feelings of loss and grief and directing them at you, since you're probably the person she's closest to."
"Sadly that's how grief works. It can be entirely overwhelming. Hopefully, in due time your wife will process these intense feelings and see that you handled this situation, which let's face it, was an emotional minefield, with honor and integrity. You sir, are NTA."
"I would however advise you to approach your wife with patience and suggest she talk to a professional about what she's going through. It can't be easy to cope with a loss of this magnitude. For either of you."
"My sincere condolences for your loss." - AnneLavelle
"You and your wife have suffered a parent's worst nightmare. After your younger son upended the entire family. I hope you and your wife can hold onto each other and comfort each other. You were in a terrible position through no fault of your own."
"Maybe years ahead, your living son and wife will take accountability and truly seek forgiveness from the living (tho it's too late for healing from some). For right now please seek any comfort you can find." - ElleSmith3000
The subReddit understood that it was tough to keep a family apart, but at the end of the day, the OP had honored his dying son's wishes, and that was what mattered most.
If the OP's wife was so eager to have a relationship, that was her perogative, but hopefully, they would all reach a point of being accountable for their own decisions and move on.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp