Mothers always know.
That is an age-old saying.
But perhaps, mothers don't always know... everything.
Mothers aren't always aware of their children's changing ideas and growing palettes.
Change can be surprising for a parent.
Redditor Spiritual-Piccolo535 wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback, so naturally, they came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
They asked:
"AITA for arguing with my MIL about my husband's feelings for spaghetti?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My husband and I (both 25) were visiting my M[other]-I[n]L[aw]'s house for dinner this evening."
"After dinner, my husband offered to drive his youngest sister to a friend's house so that my MIL could stay home after cooking."
"While he was out, MIL, S[ister]-I[n]-L[aw] and I sat around in the living room chatting."
"SIL is preparing to move out on her own soon, and was asking about any easy-to-cook dinner recipes I had."
"One of the things I brought up was spaghetti."
"When I said that, MIL chuffed and asked if I only make that when my husband is working late."
"I was confused and told her no."
"She said, "Well, he doesn't like spaghetti. That's why I asked.'"
"Again, I was confused."
"I told her that he likes it now, enough to request that I make it decently often."
"To that, she said, 'Is it maybe your favorite thing to make, and he knows it? Is that why he asks?'"
"At this point, I started to get a little annoyed, because I could feel it going in the direction that she isn't a stranger to, which is the 'I'll always know more about my son than you' sort of thing."
"So, where I would usually just shrug and say, I don't know to keep the peace, I decided I would push back this time."
"I told her that every time I make spaghetti, he polishes off over half of it that night, and leftovers don't last either."
"Then, MIL turned to SIL and said, 'You remember how much he hates spaghetti. He would practically gag over it.'"
"To which my SIL shrugged and said, 'Maybe he changed his mind.'"
"And MIL went on to say, 'No, I know him. He's stubborn about tastes.'"
"So I asked MIL if she thought I was lying about him liking spaghetti, and she rolled her eyes and asked me if this was the hill I wanted to die on."
"To which, I said that she was welcome to ask him once he got back."
"She shook her head and told me there was no need for her to ask."
"That she knew her son, and she would know the answer."
"After that, the conversation faded, and we all sort of just got on our phones."
"Until my husband walked back into the house, and the first thing I said was 'Hey, babe, do you like spaghetti?'"
"And of course, he said yes in a confused tone."
"I gestured my hand to him and looked at my MIL and said, 'See?" And she got up and said, "I gotta do something,' and went back to her room and did not come back out until we left."
"On our way home, I explained the spaghetti thing to my husband, which he honestly did not care about."
"He'd just asked why I asked."
"But about an hour ago, MIL sent my husband a big text about how I was rude and telling her that he only likes my spaghetti because I'm a better cook than her (which I did not say)."
"Does it make me childish, even though I was a little fed up with the whole song and dance?"
The OP was left to wonder:
"So, AITA for arguing it?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Your MIL is a child."
"And she probably makes crap spaghetti. 🤣. NTA." ~ 456name789
"NTA, but your husband better be responding with 'Don't lie about what she said. See you next time.'" ~ innocentsalad
"NTA, this wasn't just about spaghetti; there was some competition there about something."
"If this is a common thing with the MIL, pick which hills you're willing to die on; they won't all turn out like this." ~ Interesting-Client63
"Such a silly argument."
"No one doesn't like spaghetti, it's really just the vessel for the sauce, and obviously, your sauce is different from hers."
"NTA. As you said, she wants to know him best, but she knew the past him, not the current him."
"People grow."
"She will have to deal." ~ Only-Breadfruit-6108
"NTA. MIL is telling on herself with that text."
"'She said she's a better cook than me.'"
"You never said that, but she knows damn well that's what's happened with the spaghetti."
"Something about the way she made it turned his stomach, but he likes whatever you've done."
"If she weren't such a petulant person?"
"She'd just ask you for the recipe." ~ OSTBear
"NTA. MIL is, though!"
"Keep standing up for yourself going forward, because she'll never let up." ~ Glittering_Regret255
"NTA. She sounds exhausting."
"It was she who made it a hill to die on, it was she who kept pressing the issue, it was she who told you not to bother asking your own husband, it was she who stormed out, and it was she who wrote him a garbage text."
"I'd email her my spaghetti recipe." ~ ToastetteEgg
"NTA. You did exactly what I would've done."
"Sometimes, you just can't take the endless BS, and you ask a simple clarifying question. Lulz." ~ LuLuLittlefoot
"NTA. MIL is heavily invested in being the #1 woman in her son's life and will take any and every opportunity to make sure you know it."
"Hubby probably didn't like spaghetti growing up because hers wasn't good."
"You're so he likes it."
"Only a 'big deal' because it threatens MIL's sense of superiority." ~ Anxious-Routine-5526
"NTA, the fact that she's willing to lie to you to gain sympathy, like your husband won't actually ask you what happened."
"Mothers who are competitive with their D[augther]-I[n]-L[aw]/SIL over their sons should be studied."
"It's like some kind of reverse Oedipus complex."
"Was she competitive with him before you got married?"
"He definitely needs to nip this in the bud now, though, because she's only going to get worse the more she feels like you're encroaching on her relationship with him."
"Moms like that think their sons are frozen in time and that their tastes and interests don't change because all she's ever done is cater to the tastes and interests of the version of her son at that moment in time, and she can't handle it when anything contradicts that." ~ Anne_Atreptic
"This is such a great example of problems with MIL and their sons 🤦🏽♀️."
"My MIL is not too bad, but she sometimes has her moments of trying to convince me she knows him better."
"It's like they don't wanna let go of their son."
"As if you're stealing him."
"My husband always had issues with weight gain."
"He feels really insecure about it, and his family even jokes about it; they love to roast each other."
"I think it's painful for him, constantly being bodyshamed."
"So, he wanted me to help him decline snacks and junkfood, or have a second plate."
"We were at our in-laws, and my MIL really pushed him to have more food when he said no multiple times."
"I made a comment that she shouldn't do that because he wants to watch his diet at the moment."
"And that he said no."
"And she got even worse, as if she was thinking that I wanted him to lose the weight."
"I don't know what it is about MIL's." ~ Doritos_nachocheese
"NTA. Honestly, sometimes after dealing with someone like your MIL for awhile we as people will pick the weirdest things to push back on sometimes."
"In this case, it was spaghetti."
"You were just over how she acts in certain situations."
"And you were also tired of ignoring it and letting it slide."
"I completely understand."
"Been there, done that." ~ Pale-Cress
"It's a power struggle."
"You can feel pity for her and not give her exactly what she wants."
"Hubby is the rope in the tug of war.
"Drop your side and just kill her with kindness."
'Whatever you say mom' and a smile."
"Silence or change the subject."
"You won."
"You are married."
"No need to feed her fire."
"She's pathetic if that's all she's got."
"Plus, she wants the struggle and to irritate you, and seems to be getting what she wants and will escalate for hubby to save her- choose her."
"Nip it."
"Even better when she starts up, just smile."
"Let her ramble and nod and change the subject."
"She's def TA but no need to make this ESH." ~ Appreciate1A
"NTA. I will admit that I'm a picky eater, but I still like foods as an adult that I hated as a child just because my mom was bad at cooking them." ~ vrcraftauthor
"When I married my husband, he hated spaghetti."
"But it is a favorite of mine."
"Guess what, he rapidly decided he loves spaghetti and requests it often."
"What changed his mind?"
"This is how he describes his mother's spaghetti."
"It was big chunks of greasy hamburger with big chunks of canned tomatoes and big chunks of bell peppers tossed over noodles."
"Sooo. Maybe MIL knows something in her heart of hearts… that you actually are a better cook." ~ Purkinsmom
"NTA. She's a loony and is obsessed with the idea that she knows her son best."
"I'm glad you pushed back."
"People like this can't get away with thinking they are always right; no one is."
"To not even consider for a moment that his tastes could have changed, or that he didn't like that particular spaghetti is mad. 🤦."
"She's argumentative and looks for confrontation, but when hit with logic and facts, she can't handle being wrong or proven wrong."
"Acting like that over spaghetti 😅🤦." ~ stevie_92b
Reddit has your back, OP.
Your MIL has some issues to deal with.
Letting the argument go is one thing, but lying about you is another.
This is an awkward situation; try to stay prepared.
Good Luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp