Planning a wedding proposal can stir up anxiety.
Yes, it's a beautiful occasion, love is in the air, and all of that...
But most people who propose want it to be perfect.
Not all planning is perfect, though.
Redditor Terrible-Simple2537 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback, so naturally, he came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
He asked:
"AITA for not including my fiancé's family in the proposal?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"This week I (M[ale] 26) proposed to my amazing G[irl]F[riend] (F[emale] 26) of 3 years."
"These last three years I have spent time with her, and time with her family through family holidays, engagements, and visiting their home weekly."
"One of my girlfriend's initial requests for the proposal was to include her family in some form, given their importance to her."
"3 months back, I visited her home while she was not there and asked for their blessing, which I received and was excited for."
"I brought up proposal ideas, my main one being having her family join mine in secret (even though our families have not met much) to surprise her before I get on my knee and ask the question."
"Her family did give some other recommendations which I did not go with due to wanting to make sure my girlfriend had no idea I was going to propose, and I felt taking her to places we don't normally go, such as a park or beach, would be too obvious."
"I also leaned towards having it at my home due to space, and then they would not have to worry about decorations or preparing, but I let them know if they would prefer to have it at their home, that was okay too."
"At the time, I felt the vibes were great, and I was looking forward to the next months."
"The next time I tried to reach out for a date, I was met with the fact that the holidays are too close, and because of health concerns, we should push it, which I accepted and delayed."
"When January arrived, I reached out again but was met with silence."
"Then, a week later, I proposed dates that I thought could work."
"I was met with a response from her mother stating that the date I suggested would not work because my fiancé's nephew has baseball that Saturday, and the other Saturdays this month won't work."
"She concluded the text saying to 'Go ahead and just do it without us.'"
"I responded, mentioning this is disappointing to me, but I don't want to wait any longer, and I feel my girlfriend and I are both ready to take this next step."
"So I proposed two weeks later."
"I did not include her or my own family during the proposal, and I took her to a lovely spot and proposed."
"The day was special to us both, and we both felt it went great."
"That night, when we went to give the news to her family, we were both met with dismissive responses."
"The next day was worse."
"Come to find out her mom sat down with my now fiancé and explained I did not put any effort into including her family."
"I have not been present in their home and around them during the relationship, and they should have been included in the proposal."
"They have also continued to now insult my character, my fiancé's decisions (what upsets me the most), and they are refusing to speak to me so I can explain or defend myself."
"I also found out that her whole family was free on the Sunday and Monday of the proposal."
"I'd love to hear any advice, questions, or ways you would go about fixing this."
"Things have always been strained between my fiancé and her mom, and I want my fiancé to be celebrated the way she deserves."
"Edit: For context, she lives with her family, and I have shown her the text."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP WAS the A**hole.
"Mom sounds manipulative and like she is trying to flip the script because she knows she was the bad guy in this situation." ~ __Fe
"NTA. Sounds like her family wanted to control the proposal, and that's not right."
"You tried multiple times to include them while kindly maintaining some reasonable boundaries."
"You and your fiancée should talk about how you want to handle her family as a team moving forward, and if she is not willing to set boundaries and enforce them, you should not get married." ~ friendlily
"I mean, fix what?"
"Her mom is flat out lying."
"You can show her receipts of how much you communicated with them for the blessing and trying to coordinate a family-oriented proposal."
"How is your fiancée taking this?"
"You're NTA." ~ HortenseDaigle
"NTA, but if your fiancé doesn't have your back, this will be your future." ~ Whole-Flow-8190
"It sounds like she needs therapy and needs to stop having high expectations of her family."
"For whatever reason, she is not a priority to them, and she needs to come to terms with that." ~ beerab
"NTA, tell your fiancée the truth of all you did to try to include them."
"Show her any messages you have." ~ Jerseygirl2468
"NTA. Your soon-to-be in-laws are lying."
"How your fiancé handles this is going to be a defining moment for your marriage."
"If she doesn't believe you 100%, you need to run because her mother will spend the rest of her life f**king with you." ~ onemasterball
"NTA. My advice: think twice before marrying into this chaos."
"They don't seem to be too fond of you, even if they did give their blessing."
"If they didn't and you proposed anyway, they would have for sure looked like the a**holes, so they manipulated into thinking they were on board just to drop the hammer on you and become the victims themselves."
"Remember, you're not just marrying her, you're marrying her family too." ~ Independent_Peak8500
"NTA. Is your fiancé on your side?"
"If not, do you have proof of the messages with her family saying to go ahead without her?"
"Future M[other]-I[n]-L[aw] sounds like she is trying to flip the narrative." ~ Electronic-Fennel-37
"NTA. What self-entitled and manipulative jerks." ~ danejulian
"NTA - it sounds like the Mom was purposely trying to tank her daughter's engagement."
"When that didn't work, she pivoted to blaming you for anything and everything."
"Any idea why her Mom is behaving this way?"
"Tell your fiancée everything and then let her decide how to handle her Mom."
"You both can still send out an announcement of some sort to the rest of the family."
"Congrats 🎉." ~ Confetti-Everywhere
"NTA, but your future MIL and maybe I[n]-L[aw]s are manipulative liars."
"You need to get this sorted out with your fiancé now, not later."
"Don't wait for the wedding, the house, the kids, etc." ~ DrukMeMa
"Sounds like her family doesn't really like you… or at least her mom, who is actively trying to sabotage your relationship."
"Does your gf believe that you tried to involve them?"
"You must have the text messages where they told you to go ahead without them."
"So it kinda depends on how she is reacting."
"If she stands up to her mom and says that she knows that you did try to involve them and she doesn't appreciate her mom lying to her, then you might have a chance."
"Good luck." ~ nancylyn
"I think how you proceed depends on your fiancé's reaction."
"Her family is manipulative AF."
"If she doesn't see that and is now upset with you that they weren't involved, think long and hard about marrying her."
"If she's told them to STFU and get over it and that treating you badly will not be tolerated, rock on."
"If it's somewhere in between, insist on couples counseling before you even think about setting a date or putting down any deposits."
"Her parents either don't like you, are total control freaks, or both."
"They're definitely manipulative, and I'm sure this isn't a one-time thing."
"Unless you want to deal with this for the next 30+ years, this should be a massive red flag." ~ jahubb062
"NTA. You can't fix this."
"Her family is deliberately trying to make your fiancée miserable, to stir up trouble between you two, and to make you bend the knee."
"They don't want to see things fixed: they want you to knuckle under."
"Don't defend or explain yourself: that's just grist for their mill."
"Keep moving forward and don't look back."
"Your finacée absolultely has to be 100% on your side in this."
"If she's not, then you'll be marrying into misery."
"These people will continue to do their best to sabotage your happiness at every turn." ~ ReadMeDrMemory
"NTA. You don't need to defend yourself."
"Show the receipts." ~ BlueyIsAwesome
"You must have texts back and forth with them and possibly dates you called."
"Sounds like her family is playing games regarding you and what really happened."
"For whatever reason, they have changed what they think of you and your relationship with their daughter/sister/niece, etc."
"That's messed up."
"I hope you get it straightened out." ~ still-waters-658
"NTA. A proposal is between you and her."
"If not having her family directly involved is an issue, then you dodge a bullet." ~ Long_Ad_2764
"NTA. You tried to include them, and then, dramatically, it's all about them and how you neglected to share the plans with them?"
"It sounds like your proposal was very sweet and special to both of you (which is what it should be)."
"If your fiancé wants to do a family celebration later, go for it."
"But maybe wait until her parents are willing to apologize for being so impossible." ~ Ok_Cell_8086
Reddit is with you, OP.
Hopefully, your fiancée can see what is going on here.
Don't allow these people to steal the joy.
It's sad that her family is acting this way, but don't let it rain on your well-deserved parade.
Congratulations and Good Luck!
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp