Content Warning: Mentions of Neglectful Childhood, Emotional and Physical Abuse, and Drug Overdoses
It's nerve-wracking to meet someone's parents for the first time, but people perceiving their parents-in-law as something other than just people can be disastrous.
One woman on the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit got so comfortable with her family-in-law that she turned every family gathering into a group therapy session, comparing how loving their family was compared to the abusive environment she was raised in.
Redditor Mental-Heron2079 couldn't help but look on and question what it was that his brother saw in this woman, since she managed to take every fun occasion and not only make it about herself, but also change the vibe from something fun to something they might need a therapy session for just to unpack all that they had heard.
When it reached a point that the family collectively dreaded seeing their future in-law, the Original Poster (OP) stepped in to play "the bad guy" on behalf of his family and asked that she either calm down on the negative talk from now on or stop participating in family gatherings totally.
When this did not go over well, he asked the sub:
"Am I the a**hole for asking my brother to tell his girlfriend to stop trauma-dumping during our family get-togethers?"
The OP and his brother were raised by a very loving and supportive family.
"My (42 Male) brother (40 Male) started dating Emmy (35 Female) two years ago. It's his first committed, long-term, serious relationship. They bought a house together this year, and she's dropping massive marriage hints lately."
"My brother and I are not close, but we're on good terms and are both very close to our parents. We were lucky to be born and raised in a caring, loving, supportive family."
"We're there for dinner every single Sunday and often drop by during the week for lunch, dinner, or just a cup of tea and a chat."
The OP's family did not particularly like the brother's girlfriend, Emmy.
"To be completely transparent, the rest of us don't like Emmy. She is loud, opinionated, argumentative, and her values are the antithesis of ours (the latest including MAGA), but she means so much to my brother that we go out of our way to be friendly and welcoming."
"Early on, there was an unspoken truce reached to avoid talking about some politically sensitive topics. (Well, it was not really unspoken, as my brother had to tell her to cut it out, trying to argue with us, if she wanted to be welcomed into the family.)"
"But another thing about Emmy and the reason why we're trying so hard to make her feel welcome in our family is that she had an absolute s**tty upbringing."
"We're talking addicts for parents, mental and physical abuse, neglect, living in and out of foster care, etc. She never had a chance in life."
But the family had reached the point of exhaustion when it came to Emmy sharing stories about her life.
"The problem is, Emmy got in the habit of just trauma-dumping everything about her horrible childhood on us at every single occasion. And while we're very empathetic... it kind of ruins the mood every single time."
"Each time, she just casually shares one of her stories, and it just ends up in a weird, awkward silence."
"For example, last weekend, my girlfriend was telling a story about her (normal, boring) childhood. Her father had brought home a big tub of cake frosting, and it was funny, because they ate so much frosting, her little brother literally got sick from it, so her family didn't do frosting on cake for years."
"Then Emmy jumped in and told a story about her stepfather who would physically beat her if she didn't eat all her plate, even force-feeding her until she got sick, and then she would get deprived of food for days because she 'wasted' food by vomiting it up."
"Another time, my parents apologized to me that my Christmas gift was not at their house yet, because it got lost in transit, and the replacement would be delivered the following week. She waved that off and told the story of how her biological father overdosed in her bedroom on her birthday, and ruined her birthday because it was the first time she met her biological father, and meeting him was supposed to be her birthday gift."
"One time, I was just telling a story about a bad camping trip where our tent leaked and it rained the entire time, and she chimed in about how her childhood house didn't have electricity or running water and was overrun with bug infestations instead."
The OP spoke to his brother about Emmy's oversharing when the family couldn't put up with it anymore.
"My girlfriend has told me she goes out of her way to avoid being left alone with Emmy, because it's just non-stop horror stories, and she just can't listen to it anymore."
"Last weekend, after prior discussion with my parents (who already tried to talk to my brother about this one time before and even offered to pay for therapy for Emmy), I agreed to play the bad guy."
"I took my brother aside before dinner and told him he needs to talk with Emmy about her trauma-dumping, because we're fed up with it."
"I pointed out that our family get-togethers are not therapy sessions, and if she doesn't stop, she won't be invited anymore."
"My brother got offended and said we're heartless and cold. He said that Emmy doesn't have anyone else, and we can't just pretend her bad things never happened to her, etc."
"But I guess he told her what we talked about, because today is Absolute Drama Day in the family group chat, courtesy of Emmy burning through what little goodwill she had left."
"Nobody has replied, and nobody intends on replying, either, but now my parents have told my brother that Emmy will have to apologize to be welcomed in their house again after the terrible things she said in the group chat."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that he'd played the part of the "bad guy" on behalf of his family, and he wasn't even that bad.
"Like you said, you played the bad guy. Someone had to do it, since you all feel the same way. NTA." - Life_Temperature2506
"I wouldn't even call OP a bad guy for putting up boundaries. It's not his family's job to listen to Emily's trauma; that's for the therapist. She really should get one, or she'll end up driving people away from her. Your brother is only making it worse." - IceSeeker
"NTA. You guys can’t be Emmy’s only support system, and she needs to understand that there is a time and a place for trauma dumping… and it’s in a therapist’s office."
"However, you and your parents need to be okay with the fact that if this is the hill you choose to die on, your brother might stop coming around when his partner is denied access to the family events." - ForgetfulNarwhal90
"Why does she need mental health professionals when she can clearly just trauma dump at every family gathering? (sarcastic comment)"
"Legit though, it makes her feel better by making everyone else feel worse. Secondhand trauma exists, and it might cause listeners' stress levels to spike, and might be emotionally overloaded. This can have real psychological consequences on those who are forced to listen and possibly relive their own trauma."
"Stronger boundaries are needed for her and, more importantly, the brother. They both need to understand there is a time and place for this. But it sounds like they are selfish individuals or do not understand or care enough about those around them." - OldKing7199
"You ARE NOT the bad guy. Family can’t help family when a person needs therapy."
"Tell her and your brother when she brings something up, 'We are not qualified to help.' Then change the subject."
"Also, have a list of people in her area for trauma. Then you can hand her a list, and you could also get her books that may help her with her trauma, like Boundaries, Co-Dependent No More, and others on verbal or physical abuse or addiction, if they apply."
"Tell your brother, he is not helping her, but he is enabling a dependent relationship and becoming a crutch when he should really help her, help herself. Tell him if he really loved her, he would get her help."
"There may come a time when she can’t come over anymore, until she takes the next step and gets help." - Feeling_Fab_U_Luss
Others said that Emmy needed professional help from a therapist, not her family.
"NTA. She needs to seek professional help."
"When I was in my early 20s, going through a really hard time in life (my father was diagnosed as terminal with not much time left, amongst other things), I would constantly trauma dump on a friend of mine."
"I didn’t realize how bad I had gotten until one day he said, 'I’m your friend and I care about you, but I’m not your therapist.'"
"That hit me harder than expected, but he was right. It led me to seek professional help, despite hating the idea of therapy."
"It needs to be made clear that y’all care about her, but you are not her therapist, and it’s not fair for her to constantly put that burden on your family." - Murky_Tale_1603
"Emmy needs a therapist, and if she tries to tell you she doesn't like the idea of therapy or doesn't believe in it, tell her that she actually DOES believe in therapy."
"A big part of therapy is: 1. talking with someone about 2. what happened 3. on a relatively regular basis 4. to feel seen and heard 5. so they can deal with the trauma and 6. gain healthy coping skills."
"The only thing she hasn't accomplished is #6. She can say that she doesn't believe in it all she wants, she's just doing it in a way that isn't helping her." - Asleep_Objective5941
"Give her advice from therapists, and when she says, 'But no therapy,' you all say, 'Oh, okay, well, then stop using us as your therapists. These stories are what you tell a therapist, and everything we've told you comes from therapy-driven sources,' until she stops."
"EVERYONE needs to have the same calm, 'Well, stop using us for your therapy with these stories' vibe."
"AND you need to tell your brother that you do not accept her racism by supporting her political choices." - angelacandystore
"If I'm correctly putting together the clues dropped about Emmy, I would strongly recommend that y'all do absolutely whatever is necessary to remain close with your brother."
"The trauma dumping is a thing for sure, but the tantrum when asked to tone it down, and also what you say here about her beliefs on therapy and educated people, are red flags."
"This woman sounds likely to attempt to isolate your brother at the very least, and I'd guess there will also be emotional or psychological abuse at some point if it hasn't already started (which is doubtful)." - two3six0won
After the OP received feedback, he shared an update about his brother.
"Well, my brother just came out of the woods (literally, he was working deep in the forest) and discovered the absolute s**tfest in the family group chat, and he's already called our parents to apologize to them and also texted me."
"Now he's saying that she either apologizes for everything she said, or she's out. He said he will never tolerate anyone going off on his family; she crossed the line that cannot ever be crossed."
"My brother has his flaws, and we aren't that close, but there's one thing he'll never tolerate, and that is disrespect towards his family, especially his parents."
"Unless she apologizes to every single one of us for everything she said during her tantrum in our group chat, she's not welcome in my parents' home anymore, either, and she doesn't seem like the type of person to apologize, for my brother or for the family."
"So it seems the problem kind of fixed itself."
"My guess is that I'll be solicited for helping someone move out in the near future."
The subReddit understood that Emmy had lived through some terrible things and needed help talking through it, processing it, and moving on, but she did not need to get that help from the people she hoped to be her family, especially if they were the family she'd always dreamed of having.
Rather, she needed to save the traumatic and problematic stories for a therapist, and she could share the other stories from her life that made her a pleasant, datable person in the OP's brother's eyes, for the family gatherings.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp