While some couples are able to move past infidelity, many do not. Sometimes the hurt and animosity never goes away, especially if the cheater never accepts accountability for their actions.
A mother dealing with demands from her cheating ex-husband turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However there are no required voting acronyms—only suggested ones—and no official final judgment declared.
ThrowAITAHAra asked:
"AITAH for how I responded to my ex and his affair partner about her infertility?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My ex-husband (40, male) cheated on me (34, female) with a co-worker (36, female), otherwise known as affair partner (AP). I found out about the affair three years after it started."
"At the time my husband and I had three very young children together. I kicked him out and filed for divorce. He moved in with his affair partner."
"They fought for full/primary custody of the children in the divorce, using the two-parent household as an excuse. They lost. Custody is shared and parenting time is 50-50. He married her before the ink was dry on our divorce papers."
"I think my kids would be better off with me, but I'm realistic that he would need to majorly screw up for that to happen and I can't wish that for the kids' sakes. I just hope he does better by them."
"Things were, and on my end still are, very hostile. She didn't like that I wished for him to do the same to her. He didn't like that I told his family I tested for STD's after learning of his affair."
"The only reason I told his family is they wanted to know why I couldn't be friends for the kids' sake. I told them because before affair partner there was another co-worker I now suspect he also had sex with or wanted to at least and because of those two things I wanted to be sure he didn't give me anything."
"My ex told me it was petty and gross when he had one affair only and it was only with one woman for three years."
"My ex and I use a co-parenting app for communication and I ignore calls and texts. The times this gets tricky is face to face."
"I need to keep up some kind of civility if my kids might see us together, which is more difficult than some would believe. But I love my kids more than I hate him."
"Our kids are all school aged now and doing okay. They prefer my house and have a hard time being at their dad's house some weeks. I have them seeing a therapist to help them process, but I know none of this is ideal."
"My ex and his affair partner were warned about pressuring the kids to call her mom or mama something, which they were doing for a while, and this warning was backed up by the therapist. The kids don't like affair partner and I celebrate that in my head every single day."
"You will never hear me say I'm sad they don't feel like they have two mom's when she's supposed to be the second mom. I find her disgusting to think she can knowingly help destroy their parents' marriage and then try to make them hers."
"I do not share any of these feelings with my kids. But the kids know there are issues between mom and dad. They also have some understanding that their dad cheated."
"This was not something I told them, but how badly he tried to explain some things to them when they asked him questions. He doesn't believe in therapy, so there was no professional backup to help him."
"So anyway, around Halloween my ex and the affair partner approached me at the school's Halloween event. Ex told me we needed to speak and I told them unless it was about the kids we did not."
"In a quieter moment, they caught me alone and they told me that affair partner is infertile and cannot have biological children and they have been trying for around four years."
"They told me it would mean so much if I would let go of my hate for them and be more kind to her and encouraging to her and the kids bonding so that she doesn't feel like an outsider forever."
"He told me her infertility was painful and she loves our kids and I have successfully stopped them bonding with her. But as someone who always wanted to be a mom and got to be, I should be compassionate."
"I asked them why they were telling me their own personal, private business that was nothing to do with me."
"My ex went from calm and pleading to pissed in seconds. He told me that was a disgusting reaction and at the very least I could have offered her my sympathies as my fellow co-parent and our kids' third parent."
"I walked away because I did not want to discuss it or argue in case someone (especially our kids) heard. He then texted me several times that night asking where I get my disgusting insensitivity from."
"He also tried to bring it up at a meeting the two of us had with the school over one of our children (who was not present). I'm ignoring him, but he's enraged and I had to send the texts over to my attorney for documenting."
"I expected this to have blown over by now and clearly it hasn't. For that reason alone I wanted to check what other people thought of my response."
"AITAH?"
The OP later added:
"Not only has he never apologized for destroying our family, but he acted like I caused everything because I was pregnant when the affair originally started."
"The kids' experiences at dad's are negative because of the pressure they've had to call the affair partner some kind of mom name, the fact their dad basically admitted to cheating when he explained who she is which left them very confused but he refused to engage more, and other issues like that."
"I can promise I have never said a word in front of my kids and I have been a good actor in their presence. At no point have I wanted to hurt my kids more by letting them feel all the hate I have for those two."
"I have checked with their therapist to be sure, but it's their dad and his affair partner doing the harm to themselves through their behavior and things they've said."
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole and owed her ex and his affair partner nothing (NTA).
"NTA. It's almost comical. He wants you to sympathize with his wants. I know you would prefer to have the kids 100% of the time and child support from him. He only cares about sympathy when it works in his favor."
"Just keep in mind that he is demanding 1 way sympathy after he cheated on you for 3 years. I think he lost any sympathy privileges from you."
"The only proper response is to take it up with the courts. He brought OP aside because he knew he was demanding a lot and was out of line for even asking it." ~ Puzzleheaded-Cup-854
"Where was the sympathy from either one of them while they were carrying on their affair? They have none and now expect it from you, well, that's just laughable." ~ Shadow4summer
"Yeah, cheating on your wife and mother of your young children for 3 years and then immediately marrying your affair partner is displaying 'disgusting insensitivity.' OP not caring about their private medical/fertility issues isn't insensitive."
"If they really wanted the kids to form a better relationship with their stepmom, they'd be going to family therapy, but they don't want to put in the effort. They just want a little perfect family dream to be handed to them by someone who isn't able to give them that in the first place." ~ AutisticTumourGirl
"The fact that he tried to get 100% custody so the affair partner could play house with her children is making me mad!" ~ schmyndles
"Where was this 'compassion' he talks about when he actively cheated on you for THREE years‽‽ Where was her 'compassion' when she continuously and knowingly slept with a married man for THREE years‽‽" ~ PurplePufferPea
"Sending you b*tchy texts is definitely the gateway to a major screwup. Keep checking on the kids to make sure they don't attempt any bullsh*t." ~ MediumAwkwardly
"Please continue to talk to your lawyer about these 'demands'." ~ No_Stage_6158
"Continue to not engage with them whatsoever about this. They start talking about it, you walk away or hang up. Make no comments or statements. This is no longer open for discussion. Not your responsibility." ~ mcmurrml
"The man cheated for THREE YEARS, tried to take the kids away full-time, and then got remarried straight after the divorce, but thinks OP is disgustingly insensitive? Good lord, someone buy the man a mirror because he needs some serious self-reflection." ~ Beth21286
"Narcissists are like vampires - they don't have reflections." ~ sphinxsley
"He is basically asking you to validate someone who actively helped destroy your family. That's not sympathy, that's Emotional Manipulation 101." ~ Silly-Deer-9935
"When she broke up your home and wrecked the life of those same children, was she remorseful or sympathetic? I would have told them, 'Children are a gift from God...' then stared really hard at her. NTA." ~ MeeksSoulHunter3
"I'd add, 'And you could offer your sympathies to my children and me for destroying our family, but you don't. I'll follow the example that you set'." ~ MattDaveys
"Of course, run this by your attorney first, but I'd send through the parenting app. 'The only communication I want to have with you is about our children through the parenting app. Do not talk to me about your personal life, or about AP. I do not want any communication with her at all. She is not a parent to our children, so there is no reason for her to communicate with me. If either of you ambushes me again at a school function to talk to me in person about your personal life, I will have my attorney seek an order from the court." ~ Garden_gnome1609
"There is no need for you to talk to them about ANYTHING other than the children, and it was harassment for them to corner you to do so." ~ christiebeth
Sympathy is a big ask after you blow up another person's life.
OP isn't wrong to refuse to give hers to her ex or his affair partner turned wife.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp