When people cheat romantically, the effects can be far-reaching and go on forever.
It's especially problematic when families are broken up over it.
Children learn from the behavior of adults.
Often, in these situations, adults will tend to forget that fact.
And the consequences will come back around.
Redditor New_Garden_2234 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for not offering support to my dad's wife and laughing at her when she asked for it?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My dad's wife found out six weeks ago that he's been cheating on her for years."
"They have three kids together, and she had no idea he was cheating."
"His wife, who I'll call Anne for this post, was my dad's affair partner when he was married to my mom."
"I was like 8 when we found out and how that happened was dad brought Anne over to pick up his stuff because he wanted to move in with her."
"Neither of them gave a s**t that I was there."
"A few weeks later, my mom died (car accident), and I moved in with my dad and Anne, but I didn't look at either of them in a positive light."
"I still don't, and I'm 17 now."
"Anne and I butted heads a lot over the years."
"She would talk about deserving more respect, and I told her she was just the lady my dad cheated on mom with, and she'd never be more than that in my eyes."
"I told her I didn't respect her as a person or as a supposed family member."
"Dad tried to get me to see him more positively at first, but when he realized I'd ask the big questions like why he did that to my mom and me, he stopped trying."
"I always assumed he found a new mistress but didn't have proof until a year and a half ago when I saw him with another woman."
"I said nothing, and I carried on waiting for the day she found out."
"There were times I wanted to rub it into her face so bad, but I didn't."
"I was laughing at her behind her back, and I'll admit that."
"When Anne found out, she kicked Dad out, and I moved out with him."
"This was seen as a controversial choice because Anne wanted me to stay."
"And since everything went down Anne has wanted me to visit her and wanted me to be with her and Dad's kids."
"I'm not close to the kids and don't really care about having a relationship with them."
"Last week, Dad brought me by Anne's place to pick up more of his/our stuff."
"Anne's family was there, and Anne and her family were scolding me for choosing Dad over Anne and saying Anne deserved my support."
"They couldn't believe I'd pick Dad's side over hers."
"I said I picked neither side."
"But Anne means nothing to me, so I'm not going to do sh*t for her."
"Anne's mom told me Anne was a victim."
"I told them she cheated with a married man and shouldn't be shocked that he'd do the same to her, because she's nothing special."
"They kept engaging with me, and my Dad was taking his sweet a** time."
"Anne decided to talk to me 1:1 and asked me to stand by her and support her and help her give the kids a good life and show we're still a family."
"I laughed in her face."
"Anne started to cry."
"Her family asked her about it, and she told them I'd laughed."
"They called me disgusting and cruel and said I should be ashamed of treating someone in my family that way."
"Anne's sister sent me a few DMs before I locked down my socials, but she said I should apologize to Anne and be there for her now to make up for my reaction to her."
"She told me to be a better man and not some pathetic child who blames the woman for stuff."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Well, you know the old saying, when a man marries his mistress, he opens up a vacancy 🤷 It's crazy how affair partners act so shocked that a cheater cheats."
"If he cheated to be with you, then he'll cheat on you."
"You ain't special."
"NTA, I dunno why she was so desperate for your support when you've been obvious in your dislike of her for years."
"It's like touching a hot stove and being shocked and upset when it burns you." ~ SkulledDownunda
"NTA, Everyone sucks here but you."
You're not behaving like a sociopath."
"You're behaving like someone who is very hurt and frustrated and shouldn't be put in the middle of this situation."
"I'm very sorry for your father's affairs and the loss of your mother."
"I can't imagine how hard it was adjusting to everything all in one go."
"I'm a great deal older than you, and I think I would have said something similar to my stepmother had I been in your situation, even though it's cruel."
"I'm surprised she expected empathy when you've always made it clear you don't like her or her choices."
"I'm sorry for her children's pain, but I have limited sympathy for someone who is reaping what she has sowed."
"Her family should be leaving you alone, and they're behaving unfairly."
"If it's an option for you, I think therapy might be really helpful."
"Sometimes you have to try a couple until you find the right fit, but it can really help."
"I also highly recommend the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C Gibson, you can often download it as a free P[ortable] D[ocument] F[ormat]."
"It will help you understand your father and stepmother's behavior and how that affects your feelings and actions."
"You are a good person in a bad situation."
"You're very young, and it's unfair to label you as sociopathic or anything else when you've got a lot of stuff to deal with."
"Plus, you can't diagnose anyone over a post online, especially not at your age."
"Things can get better. You can feel safe and happy, and it will happen."
"Take one day at a time, talk to friends. If it's an option, take up a hobby or hobbies."
"It might help express yourself through art or writing to help you process your feelings."
"Exercise, even just walking, might be a good way to help you process emotions and get out some frustrations." ~ Rainbow_dreaming
"NTA. I don't get the sociopath comments."
"Relishing her pain is a bit cruel... but her and her family expecting you to stand by her and continue living with her is insane."
"That, I would laugh at myself."
"I bet you were going to cut them both off at 18 anyway." ~ Samarkand457
"NTA. How exactly does she expect a 17-year-old to give her kids a good life?"
"With free babysitting?"
"I'm guessing she never adopted you so legally she has no custodial rights to you, it makes sense that you'd leave with your dad."
"Did your mom have a will?"
"Any chance that there's an inheritance that you'll have access to when you turn 18?"
"Or is there some sort of trust that they've been drawing on that your dad's wife is hoping to still have access to if you stay?" ~ cassowary32
"NTA. There's no more delicious schadenfreude than when an affair partner gets cheated on."
"Her family needs to wake up and realize that you were always going to stick with your biological relative although he is also TA for cheating." ~ C_Majuscula
"What did she expect?"
"Apparently, someone who's cheated on someone else before is 4 times more likely to do it again."
"She should've seen it coming and it's definitely not your fault she didn't, 100% NTA."
"Also, that's such a shi**y thing to go through."
"That's all there is to say. NTA." ~ diminishingpatience
"Oh, this happened to my father."
"He left Mom for Barbara."
'A year later, Barbara cheated on him."
"Mom felt sorry for him and invited him to dinner on Christmas Eve."
"After we kids went to bed, my father went into the long, sad story about Barbara cheating."
"He looked Mom straight in the face and said, 'How can someone say that they love you and then cheat on you?'"
"Mom burst out laughing."
"'I don't know
"He didn't get it, and was hurt that she laughed at him." ~ lisaann03071961
"NTA. You behaved better than I would."
"I'd have massively rubbed it in her face, you were really quite restrained."
"Tell her if she doesn't leave you alone you'll tell the kids."
"After all, you were old enough to discover it at 8, surely hers are around the same age?"
"Maybe that'll get her to leave you alone." ~ HayWhatsCooking
"NTA... you were constant in your dealings with her throughout your time there."
"To me, she got the Karma she deserved for what she did to your mum."
"Your dad is just being your dad and will probably rinse and repeat." ~ th0ughtfull1
"NTA she lost him how she found him, cheaters cheat."
"If he'll cheat with you he'll cheat on you." ~ Churchie-Baby
"NTA. Play stupid games, and win stupid prizes."
"Or a much older axiom, a leopard doesn't change his spots."
"I probably would've even said something like 'Now you know how it feels' but that's just me."
"And since you don't have a blood relationship with her, of course, you'd go with your dad."
'Your dad's a dog, and I hope he doesn't repeat the cycle again, but that's not your business." ~ Evening-Cry-8233
"NTA and bravo she needed a good laughing in the face after what she and your dad did to your mother." ~ Silent-Appearance-78
Well, OP, Reddit is with you.
You have no obligation to these people.
It does sound like you could use some therapy for yourself, though.
You've been through a lot.
Holding it all in can be unhealthy.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp