What is to be done when someone you love shows you trust by sharing a secret with you in confidence that, if shared, would hurt someone else you love?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) Regular-Person when he came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
He asked:
"WIBTA if I told a close family friend that her husband cheated on her 4 years ago?"
OP began by explaining why he'd come to Reddit.
"So my situation is a little difficult so I thought I would confide in the good professional people of Reddit."
"Couple days ago me and my brother we're hanging out late night doing regular guy things drinking, watching sports, etc..."
"We haven't seen each other in maybe 5-6 years so naturally we started talking about life and what's been going on the past few years. Towards the end of our conversation we started to get to the 'secrets'.
"I mentioned something along the lines that I smoked weed for the first time and did various other substances (This was hard for me to tell because my whole life I was pretty much anti-drugs and such.)"
Everything was fine, until...
"We both laughed about it saying 'Just don't let mom find out' The joke died out after a little bit and then he just blurted out 'I cheated on my wife...'"
"At first it didn't register until I saw his face and he was dead serious."
"I for one hate cheaters, but I try to do my best not to judge anyone for their actions. He begins explaining this was something that happened about 4 years ago when his wife was always busy with work."
"She would travel a lot and be away for weeks at a time."
"He told me they were going through a tough time back then lots of arguing, not communicating, and that he felt really lonely."
"During this same time my brother met a girl at his local gym, started off as friends, slowly kept bonding and you guessed they did the sex."
"He told me this occasion only happened once and pretty much cut her off after that night because he started to feel guilty for a short while. Few months later his relationship turned for the better for him and his wife."
"Pretty much after his wife's travels slowed down his whole relationship has been great. They've both gotten promotions, bought a house, more family vacations."
"(They have a kid) He told me life has been good to him now and he's just thankful things have finally worked out."
"As stated before I hate cheaters and I've always felt that the person being cheated on always has the right know."
"I know for sure this would probably destroy their marriage and there would be a fight for the kid."
"My heart tells me I have to tell her because it's the right thing to do, especially because I've known my brother to cheat one other time on an ex-girlfriend couple years before his current wife."
"My brain tells me it's none of my business and I should keep my mouth shut. I don't want to see their kid go through that kind pain either."
"On one hand I betray my brother if I say something on the other hand I betray our close family friend because I know this secret and I don't say anything."
OP was left to wonder,
"I wish he never told me, ignorance is truly bliss. So there it is, WIBTA if I said something?"
"TLDR:"
"Brother Cheated on his wife years ago because he was depressed, now everything is better and he told me about it, but now I feel obligated to tell his wife because she's a close friend. WIBTA?"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judgment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: YTA
Many agreed that this was a complex, conflicted issue.
"Upvoted for real conflict."
"YTA if you tell her now."
"I am usually on the side of 'the cheated partner absolutely deserves to know'".
"But here it seems to be a thing in the past, your brother has genuinely regretted it and improved his marriage. So it's better if you don't stir the pot now." ~ TessaGray16
"Not sure if I agree but I also don't disagree I think this is a very tough decision either way."
"I think OP if doesn't tell wife needs to have another talk with his brother about how this can never happen again even if they become distant or whatever as there is no excuse."
"But yes it was years ago and they've moved on had a kid e.t.c. so ruining that is not ideal so would understand him not telling and wouldn't say he'd be TA for not telling." ~ veggiebuilder
Though not everyone found the problem ambiguous.
"Correction * HE moved on."
"She never had the chance to know. She is building a life with a man that cheated on her."
"She has never had an actual say in this dilemma because no one has told her."
"Just because it's been X amount of years, doesn't mean she doesn't deserve to know that information."
"No one wants to be the bad guy and feel like they'll ruin a 'good' life by telling the spouse."
"But then again are they the person who actually messed up and cheated?"
"It was damaged the day he decided to commit adultery. This woman has a right to know so that she can have a voice."
"These two people, OP and his brother are making that decision for her." ~ milesforsmiles
Others thought more about the consequences of both sides.
"Telling the wife - results in potentially splitting up the family."
"If they dont split then they may stay together just for the kid and the general relationship turns bitter and resentful."
"Or the chance the wife forgives and all is ok. Yet the relationship with the brother is ruined in either case."
"Not telling the wife - results in family life continuing to get better, kid doesnt see their parents split, which is never easy."
"Brother relationship is also intact."
"Yet the brother has some moral issue with something that really isn't their business."
"Are we expecting the other brother to tell his brothers employer that hes been taking illegal drugs?"
"I dont like it when both parties are involved in a sort of secrets exchange."
"Yet one person decides they will take the moral high ground, ignoring the fact that they have also admitted to some bad sh*t."
"Yet feel that they can trust their brother not to snitch, while snitching themselves."
"Get off your high horse."
"Holding your brother to something he did 4 years ago, that he also admitted was wrong. Is just crappy in my opinion."
"This doesnt feel like a completely logical response. Are you jealous of your brother?"
"Have you had some bad experiences people cheating on you? If so, don't reflect your bad experiences onto your brother." ~ [deleted]
Commenters reflected on what they would want.
"I'd definitely want to know, if I don't have a kid."
"If I had a kid, I wouldn't want to know if it's a scenario like OP described." ~ sirxez
"I would want to know regardless."
"If my partner could cheat and not come clean right away, then they aren't who I thought they were and they probably aren't someone I want to waste my life with no matter what good qualities they have."
"Trust is not negotiable. Kids would not change that."
"Besides, just because their marriage got better and he didn't feel like cheating anymore, doesn't mean he'd never go there if things go south again."
"He opened that door, and more than once (in his past relationship as well, so we know he didn't learn the first time.)"
"Marriage is never smooth sailing all the way. If I can only count on someone to have my back and stay honest when things are peachy, then I can't count on them at all." ~ prismaticbeans
"But there's people like me. I found out after the fact and would rather not have. I almost didnt survive the anger and depression afterwards (loaded gun in my hands a few times)."
"I would only want to know if it was ongoing." ~ alvehyanna
OP did return to add some clarity.
"Edit:"
"I'm referring SIL as close family friend because my family and her family have known each since elementary school days and thus are Very close lol."
"I thought this iteration would make the relationship sound stronger than just SIL, but it looks like I was wrong."
"Second Edit:"
"Wow this is on the front page, I never intended nor expected this blow up as it did! I'm sorry I can't reply to everyone, but there will be some kind of update."
Complicated problems aren't necessarily better or worse than 'simple' ones.
Just like some of the commenters above you may see this as an easy answer.
So in the end we all make our own moral codes.
We build them from our experiences and our upbringing.
Our friends and our enemies.
Whatever decision this man came to was his to make, and it's a choice that will have consequences one way or the other.
We all make our choices, we all build our moral compass with the best materials we can.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp