No two people have the same relationship with alcohol.
Most people know their limits and are able to put a stop to drinking when they know they've gone too far.
Others are less savvy and just keep the drinks coming, even if they know they've had one too many.
Then there are those who've had bad experiences in the past and won't go near the stuff under any circumstances.
Redditor throwawayhfhda was surprised to discover that their fiancé wanted their wedding to be alcohol-free.
Something the original poster (OP) wasn't interested in in the slightest, fearing their wedding wouldn't be fun for their side of the family without alcohol.
As a result, the OP took matters into their own hands, much to their fiancé's dismay.
Wondering if they were being insensitive, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole (AITA), where they asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for not giving my fiancée a 'say'?"
The OP explained how whether or not to serve alcohol at their wedding proved to be a very contentious issue with their fiancé.
"My fiancée doesn't drink, and he never really gave me a reason why."
"He just said he doesn't really see the purpose in alcohol or other substances and stuff."
"But it has never been an issue."
"He has never judged me for drinking, and he is the type of person who can have fun sober."
"Our wedding planner came to our apartment today to ask for details for our wedding, and my husband told me and her for the first time that he doesn't want alcohol at the wedding."
"This came as a shock to me, but I just told the wedding planner to hold off on that so me and my husband could discuss and plan other things."
"This was just the first meeting with the planner, and we are planning a winter wedding."
"When the planner left. I asked my husband why he doesn't want alcohol there, and he said there was no reason; I said if there's no reason, then we're going to have alcohol there."
"Then he told me his mom is an alcoholic, but she has been nine years sober."
"I asked if his mom asked him not to order alcohol, and he said no, but he doesn't want her to feel triggered."
"I have noticed that his mom doesn't drink, but I thought it was a family thing."
"I have attended multiple family functions, most of which had alcohol present, and I have never seen her take a sip."
"I think that just speaks to her self-control."
"I told my husband that I don't think his reasoning is valid and brought up how he is going out of his way to do this when his mom didn't ask him to and that she has amazing self-control."
"He got upset and said I was not giving him any say in our wedding and that if I couldn't even listen to him about this, then I should just plan the wedding by myself and have fun going to the wedding planner by myself."
"I feel like he is only thinking about himself; my family is big on drinking, and they are obviously going to want to celebrate me."
"Plus, we want a really fun reception, and I'm not sure if we can achieve that without alcohol."
"AITA here?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by. declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community was fairly divided on where they believed the OP fell in demanding alcohol be present at their wedding.
Many felt that the OP had the right to be frustrated by the idea of a dry wedding, but felt both the OP and their fiancé could reach a compromise rather than demanding one or the other.
"NAH."
"Husband might well be an ex-alcoholic."
"If you two can't talk your way through this one, you really shouldn't be getting married."- Hour-Performance-951
"When you said he doesn't drink, I was curious."
"When he said his mom is a recovering alcoholic, I was pretty sure."
"He was traumatized by his mother's behavior when she was drinking."
"I think that's why he doesn't drink - so he never, ever does what she did."
"It's pretty common for children of alcoholics."
"He needs help to heal from this because you, as a layperson, probably can't help him."
"You can support him, but he may have a lot of unpacking to do that is best done with a professional."
"There is also a support group called ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) that could be very helpful to him."
"That being said, NAH, but you may need to compromise on the reception."
"You may be able to negotiate for beer & wine, but no hard liquor."
"But he may not be willing to budge."
"His mother knows that she is responsible for her own sobriety, but he doesn't trust her."
"He may never trust her."
"You aren't having a rational disagreement about whether to serve alcohol at your reception."
"You have a healthy relationship with alcohol."
"He has a terror of it."
"You drinking doesn't really bother him - you aren't his mom."
"But it sounds as if he is terrified of the possibility of his mom drinking."
"That's a far deeper, existential fear, more akin to a phobia."
"There's no rational discussion to be had with a phobia."
"I strongly suggest ACOA and therapy for him, and possibly couples' therapy for both of you."
"I wish you the best of luck."- MbMinx
"NAH."
"But you two need to rethink your pending marriage if you cannot have this discussion and come to a mutual agreement."
"Because there is an easy answer to this dilemma (let's just ask your mother), and he is not even engaging in that process."
"That is not a good sign."- ThrowawayForADay0327
"Sounds like he needs help with dealing with his mom's alcoholism."
"When a family member, especially a parent, is an alcoholic, everyone needs treatment."
"Sounds like he didn't get enough or any help, given his strong reaction."
"Yeah, I'm the child of an alcoholic, and I used to be afraid of it too."- Adjmom
"I have no stance on this couple, but expect a dry wedding to be short unless the guests are teetotalers."
"Not because 'people can't spend one measly evening sober.'"
"But because guests not in the inner circle will be subject to long stretches of boredom."
"Stuck at the venue for hours, among lots of strangers."
"IOW cut off from the usual ways to amuse yourselves without drinking."
"Alcohol does help break the ice."
"I say this as someone who doesn't GAF for myself, but only upon attending a long, dry wedding with a large guest list did this really hit me - and I was unable to drink at the time either way for medical reasons!"
"I was gonna be dry for a couple of weeks no matter where I was."
"But all those other stone-cold sober people were stupefyingly dull."- Aggressive_Idea_6806
Others, however, felt that the OP's poor communication, or lack thereof, entitled the OP to make the final decisions regarding the wedding.
"NTA."
"It could be an ESH or NAH if he would actually communicate."
"What the hell is wrong with this sub and its weird puritanical views on alcohol?"
"How do so many of you make the jump from 'I don't want a dry wedding/there is normally alcohol at Big family events' to 'we are all alcoholics who want to get blind drunk.'"
"Is this a US thing?"
"Alcohol can be a great social lubricant at these sorts of events. It can help with small talk, getting out on the dance floor, and generally being more sociable on general."- Brodes87
"If y'all are planning a literal wedding together, how did you just find out that he's a child of an alcoholic?"
"That is a huge part of his life that he's just now disclosing to his FIANCÉ, in what I'm assuming is years of being in a long-term, committed relationship."
"NTA."
"I hope he learns to stop keeping himself from you."- Wonderful_Bread7580
"NTA."
"He sprung that on you with no warning at a meeting with your wedding planner, and ultimately his mom's sobriety is her responsibility."
"His response does make me wonder if he's had his own problematic relationship with alcohol."- CrystalQueen3000
"NTA."
"This is a large aspect of the wedding to randomly spring on you out of nowhere."
"The larger issue is why he doesn't share anything about his life before 17 with you as it will come up (as it apparently is right now)."- Packwood88
"NTA."
"Wanting alcohol at a wedding to loosen people up and have more fun does not make you an alcoholic."
"Those comments are giving holier-than-thou, pick-me energy."
"There is nuance to things, which a lot of people seem to be forgetting here."
"There's a reason dry wedding receptions end early and often aren't as fun as people were hoping for."
"Yes, you can have fun without alcohol, but let's be realistic here."
"Drinking culture at weddings is pretty common, and most people expect to be able to have drinks at a wedding."
"OP isn't TA (or an alcoholic) just because they want to have a few at their wedding."
"This is not something he can just spring on you."
"He should have mentioned this way ahead of time."
"I get that he has trauma, but he needs to be able to be open with his life partner, especially about important things like that."
"Drinking culture is huge at weddings and that should have been something he brought up way ahead of time, not late enough in the game that you've already hired the wedding planner."
"Honestly, a good compromise might be a cash bar."
"There's a lot less drinking at a wedding when guests have to pay for it."
"You could also do low-percentage drinks instead, like beers and seltzers."
"Dry weddings can be great and are totally cool, but they definitely need to be discussed ahead of time."
"You can't just spring that on your spouse last minute, especially when they never even knew there was an alcohol issue in the family in the first place because he refused to disclose it."-SnooChipmunks770
It's understandable why the OP might be disappointed not to have alcohol at their wedding.
That being said, the concerns of the OP's fiancé are valid as well.
Hopefully, a compromise can be reached which will please both parties and allow them both to enjoy their wedding without concern.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp