When religion is forced upon someone, it is seldom, if ever, effective.
This can cause strife in a family, however, when one member finds that they don't connect to or believe in the religion which they have practiced for years.
Such was the case for Redditor HelpedABrotherOutTA, who found that they were not a good fit for their family's religion of choice.
Even so, the original poster (OP)'s family made every effort to lure them back, even sending volunteers from their church to try and convince them.
Their efforts ended up backfiring badly, however, resulting in the OP's uncle being fired from their position at the church.
Worried they might have been responsible for their uncles' dismissal, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where they asked fellow Redditors.
"AITA for getting my uncle in trouble and causing him to lose money?"
The OP shared how not only did their family's efforts to get him back to church fail but inadvertently cost the OP's uncle his job.
"I left my church recently, and my dad keeps sending church members to my house to 'save' me."
"Recently a pair of church volunteers came over to talk with me."
"They offered assistance with anything I might need."
"I had them help around my farm while we talked."
"We talked about where they are from, (they're volunteering for 2 years from out of the country) what they plan on doing when they get home, how my life's going, and why I stopped believing."
"The next week one of them called and said they weren't sure if they believed when they left the country, and after our talk, they realized they didn't believe and wanted to return home."
"The problem was that their volunteer coordinator was holding on to their important documents so they wouldn't get misplaced, and one of those things were his passport."
"The coordinator said he would only give it back after his 2 years were finished."
"He asked if I could get it back for him since the coordinator is my uncle."
"I spoke to my uncle, and he said he knew I was the one who corrupted him and basically told me to kick rocks."
"I told him I would call the police on him if he didn't give him back the passport and he said I didn't have the balls."
"So I called the police, and they redirected me to the Australian embassy."
"My uncle was fined quite a hefty amount and told him he had 3 days to return the passport or they would start the process to charge him with human trafficking."
"Word got around his church, and now he's been released from his paid coordinator position."
'My family are saying I went too far and that they knew he would have given the volunteer his documents back."
"That he has too many physical problems to get another job and I shouldn't have said anything."
"I'm starting to think maybe I did the wrong thing and should've tried other avenues before going straight to the police."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community unanimously agreed that the OP was NOT the a**hole for calling the police on their uncle.
Everyone agreed that what the OP's uncle did was illegal, that they did the absolute right thing by calling the police, and that the OP's uncle had no one to blame but himself for losing his job.
"NTA."
"Not all heroes have capes, and, you, sir, are a hero."
"If your uncle could not get another job, then he should not have been breaking the law by illegally keeping that person's documents."
"Your uncle's predicament is not your fault - it's his, 100%."
"And you saved those who he was victimizing."- bamf1701
"NTA."
"By holding onto the volunteer's passport, your uncle was human trafficking/engaging in modern-day slavery."
"Thank you for helping the volunteer out and effectively setting him free."- Delicious_Wish8712
"NTA."
"All day, every way."
"You were right to call him out for an illegal act."
"The passports are property of the issuing nation, so it was wrong for your uncle to hold them."
"Case closed."- Parking-Fix-8143
"NTA!"
"That church/cult is basically setting up an indentured servitude situation for 'missionaries'."
"They are not above the law."- PurpleGreyPunk
"NTA AT ALL and congratulations for getting out of whatever religious movement this is."
"Whether it is Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, or anything else, this is trafficking, and a well-documented abusive cult tactic used to keep members in line."
"You should be so proud of yourself."
"Side note - I'm an avid scholar of New Religious Movements and cults and if you are ever interested, I can provide you with a ton of resources to read, watch, engage with, and/or seek help from."
"You are not alone."- Alloddscanteven
"NTA."
"He literally kidnapped someone and then dared you to call the police."- Rando_R_Random_IV
"Yep, I used to work on transnational crime issues, and withholding travel documents is a classic technique deployed by human traffickers and exploiters of migrant labor."
"Your uncle deserved what he got; glad the Church actually did the right thing and fired him instead of just tut-tutting piously."
"Absolutely NTA."- marvel_nut
"NTA at all you did the right thing no one has the right to basically hold someone prisoner you saved them from not only the church but from being stuck where they didn't want to be you absolutely did the right thing."
"Thank you."- qtd267
"NTA."
"You simply can't force somebody to work/volunteer against their will."
"Your uncle f**ked around, and found out."
"You have nothing to feel bad about, I would say quite the opposite."- DankDankmark
"NTA."
"I think you absolutely did the right thing; you're a good human - opposite of an a**hole in fact."
"Your family is saying they knew your uncle would give the volunteer his documents back, but why did your uncle have them in the first place?"
"Glad he got punished!"- TheMadHatterOnTea
"NTA."
"Anyone supporting human trafficking is beyond AHs."
"They are criminals and should all be reported."- MidniteProph
"NTA."
"He made his bed and he made his choices."
"You held him accountable."
"Okay stupid games win stupid prizes."- Overall_Guess_8250
"Nope, your uncle fk'd around and found out the hard way."
"NTA."
"He was basically holding the passport hostage and as an extension a human hostage."
"No one should have their human rights taken away (in this case the freedom to return home)."-MyFriendsCallMeEpic
"I'm no law expert, but I'm pretty sure keeping someone's passport so they can't get away and they have to do what you say is absolutely human trafficking."
"Thank you for speaking up."- ISwearIUsedToBeSmart
"Sorry, was this a church or a cult?"
"Not sure from your description."
"You are not at fault here."
"People cannot hold passports hostage in the name of Dog. (dyslexia)."
"You gave him the chance to right the wrong, and instead he doubled down. Reap what you sow, right?"
"That sounds familiar, almost as if I'd read it somewhere."
"NTA."- motorwolfe
"NTA."
"You tried asking for the documents, and he illegally refused."
"The next avenue was contacting the authorities."- ParsimoniousSalad
"Definitely NTA."
"Many mission presidents have ruined lives by refusing to return passports."
"You did the right thing."- IcyIssue
"NTA."
"Wow, your uncle really blew it."
"The only reason he was in trouble was due to his actions."- wind-river7
"NTA."
"Don't do illegal things and you won't have to face the consequences for dubious activities."-bitch_is_cray_cray
"NTA, so many churches (cults) believe they're above the laws, and it was straight up abusive for him to withhold that person's passport, not to mention, theft."
"You're a g*ddamned hero."- uuuumno
"Congratulations on leaving the church."
"I left the church over 40 years ago and have never looked back."- Funny_Badger_6931
"NTA."
"Thank you."
"Thank you so much for doing this."
"What your uncle was doing was illegal and immoral, and the fact that this isn't uncommon just makes me sick."- DamnIGottaJustSay
"NTA."
"Your Uncle, and the Church, we're basically holding people hostage!"
"You 100% did the right thing."
"Hopefully the Australian Govt keeps a nice eye on this 'Church'."- LetsGetsThisPartyOn
"NTA."
"He was literally holding that passport at ransom for 'volunteer' work."
"It's pretty cut and dry, legally and morally."
"Your family are the AHs for excusing this behavior."
"Really, I would have done the same thing."
"He's old enough to know right from wrong, as well as the law."- Ok-Writer-774
One can't help but wonder how no one at this church didn't stop to consider if sending a volunteer who seemed to be pretty clearly in doubt was the best way of bringing the OP back.
If anything, they may have succeeded in more people leaving this church as the story continues to get out.
Human trafficking is not exactly a way to bring more people in.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp