One thing workplaces often forget is that organization and efficiency aren't synonymous.
A task can be extremely organized, but terribly inefficient. Or highly efficient, but woefully unorganized.
High organization with low efficiency leads to slow production. High efficiency with low organization leads to mistakes or work stoppages when one piece of the process is removed.
The key is balancing the two. This also applies to running a household.
A husband dealing with his wife's high organizational skills but low efficiency turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However there are no required voting acronyms—only suggested ones—and no official final judgment declared.
Dale1046 asked:
"AITAH for 'embarrassing' my wife in front of our 12-year-old?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My wife (42, female) is generally great. One of her positive traits is that she is extremely well-organized."
"She has all sorts of to-do lists, a meticulously managed calendar, etc... This is usually a good thing as she rarely forgets anything."
"However, sometimes this leads to somewhat absurd results, as in this example."
"The other day, my wife and I (41, male) are sitting on the couch watching TV. Our 12-year-old daughter comes in and says she needs a permission slip signed for a school trip the next week—which she has right in her hand, and I see she's holding a pen as well."
"My wife pauses the show we're watching, gets up off the couch... and without her even saying anything, I know exactly what she's doing. She's heading to the kitchen to add 'Permission slip for Katie' to one of her lists of tasks."
"I found this ridiculous, because these permission forms take 30 seconds... you fill out your kid's name in the 'I give permission for _____ to go to the museum,' you sign it, and you're done. Sometimes there is an extra question—such as a check-box for 'Do you want to pay $5 for your kid to have a school-provided lunch' or you can decline if you are packing a lunch for your kid."
"So since Katie was sitting right there with a pen, I filled out the form, handed it back to her, she put it in her backpack, and my wife gets back and plops on the couch and says to Katie, 'Did you need anything else?' Katie says no and starts to walk away."
"I say to my wife, 'Where did you go just now?' and my wife says, 'To add Katie's permission form to my to-do list.' I say, 'Well, you can cross it off because I did it while you were gone'."
"And she looks at me dumbfounded, and Katie starts laughing hysterically."
"I told my wife that I appreciated her organizational skills, but sometimes it's just easier to take care of things in the moment... and this was one of those times."
"Katie had the form ready. She had a pen. In the time it took my wife to add this task to her list, it was already done."
"I said that the alternative was, at some point in the future, my wife was going to see this task on her list, yell for Katie, Katie would come running, my wife would tell her to go get the form, Katie would run back to her room to get the form out of her backpack, etc..."
"Why bother with all of that when we can just take care of it right there?"
"My wife agreed with my logic, but was pissed because she said I embarrassed her in front of Katie. I wasn't trying to embarrass her."
"If anything, she embarrassed herself by trotting off to another room to add an item to her to-do list that she could have completed in less time by just staying where she was."
The OP later added:
"Unfortunately because the story was already getting long, I left out some details that may help address some questions raised."
"First, I said that my wife is very organized and keeps a lot of lists. I did NOT say that she is the main organizer for our house, or anything like that."
"The fact that she keeps a lot of lists and a calendar, etc... is for her. Not because Katie and I don't know what's up or where we're supposed to be/what we're supposed to be doing without her."
"I don't have to rely on my wife or her calendar to remind me about things. I pay all the bills, do the taxes/money stuff, just finished making the choices for open enrollment for next year (though I did get my wife's buy in on the choices), etc., which I'm happy to do because my wife hates that stuff."
"I take Katie to her sports practices, which are every Tuesday and Thursday night, and I don't need a calendar to remind me, although I'm sure my wife has them on there."
"If there WASN'T a practice on a given night, I would know, because I listen to the coach's announcements as he's dismissing the team every evening, and if they were skipping one for some reason, he'd say so, plus it would be in his weekly team email, which I read."
"My wife does most of the grocery shopping; cooking is roughly evenly split; I do the dishes because she hates it; she does the laundry because I hate it; etc..."
"Second, the trip was the next week (not in a few weeks); it was the following Thursday. And my daughter is a chatty kid who talks about the stuff going on in her life all the time."
"This trip would have been mentioned the Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday before at least three times a day. We weren't going to forget—although (as I point out below) it wouldn't have mattered even if we DID forget."
"Third, my wife sleeps in every morning and I get up and make breakfast for Katie and me (my wife doesn't eat breakfast), then Katie and I pack our lunches together (my wife likes to go out for lunch as a break in the day; I like to eat at my desk to get more done so I don't have to stay as long), and then I take her to school as it's sort of on the way to my job."
"We leave around 7:15. My wife doesn't need to be in until 9... sometimes she wakes up and says 'bye' as we're going out the door, but more often than not we don't even see her in the morning."
"The field trip forms usually—as in this case—have a box to check for a school provided lunch (for $5) or bring your own. Katie is a picky eater who has packed the exact same lunch every day for three years. She ALWAYS chooses the brown-bag option. The form would have indicated if she needed to bring anything special for the trip (this has happened once in six years; in third grade she was asked to bring a poster board for some activity they were doing)."
"I read the form and it said nothing like that. If it had, I would have made a note of it. There are never any special drop-off/pick-up logistics because this school understands how disruptive it is to change people's routines so they make sure all field trips are to places they can take the kids to and from within the hours of the normal school day."
"Point being, Katie going on this field trip will have ZERO impact on our approach to the day. We will leave at the same time, with the same lunch packed. If Katie had simply forged my signature we'd have never been the wiser (not that I'm encouraging forgery) and it would have made no difference."
"I know these things because I am an involved parent who knows how my daughter's school works, what she does for lunch, etc. The trip didn't need to be noted on my wife's calendar because she wasn't going to need to do anything."
"If Katie had asked me to sign the form while my wife was in the bathroom, I probably wouldn't even have mentioned it to my wife—not because I was hiding anything, but simply because it was a non-event in terms of any need for planning."
"Again, it likely would have come up because my daughter would have mentioned it, but there was nothing we needed to do."
"I am about 90% sure that if I had said, 'Here Katie, just give me the form, I'll just take care of it now' while my wife was sitting there on the couch, she would have snatched the form from Katie's hand and gone into the kitchen with it—either to stick in on a pile to do later (after adding it to her to-do list), or to read it immediately herself (she would have had to go to the kitchen because she would need her reading glasses to read it, and she doesn't keep those in the living room where we were watching TV)."
"It's just kinda how she is. And no, it's not because I don't know how to read, or because I gloss over details..."
"I do not know which of those two things would have happened, but I think there's only a 10% chance I would have actually been able to complete the form if I had spoken up immediately."
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors had mixed reactions to the OP's situation (NTA, NAH, YTA).
"Sounds like she's just caught in her routine. I don't think you were trying to embarrass her. Maybe she felt embarrassed as she didn't see the easy solution right in front of her. It's really not a big deal and shouldn't be cause for upset. NTA." ~ TheFlashestAsh
"NTA, for what you did—signing the form, but it seems like you and Katie have some shared frustration over your wife's need to organize sometimes making simple tasks more complicated than they need to be. So your way of doing it came off to your wife as you mocking her and you kind of both were."
"You knew to wait until she left, then tell her when she got back. You were trying to make a point, but being laughed at by her daughter is what's going to stick in her mind, not that her need for organization can sometimes be the least efficient way to do something."
"Apologize for your tactics, then try having an adult conversation about how her inefficiency is frustrating to you and your daughter. If she won't budge, just do stuff behind her back and just memorize the phrase, 'Don't worry about it, it's already taken care of'." ~ MohawMais
"I feel like people forget that NAH is an option. You didn't mean to embarrass her and she's entitled to her emotions. Sounds like a pretty low urgency situation, but it is a fun read! I think other people are right in mentioning OCD or ADHD with your wife's behavior, though."
"I've found that it makes things easier to understand when you have some sort of label, so maybe you can see why she was embarrassed, like it's more to do with how intent she is on the list-making than this specific situation."
"Especially ADHD can come with rejection sensitivity which, as a person who suffers with that, is an intense feeling. Maybe that's why she seems to have overreacted." ~ Avery-Attack
"YTA, not for signing the permission slip, but for asking your wife where she went when you already knew. The purpose was to call her out in front of your daughter."
"You could have told her you signed the form after your daughter left. Or simply checked it off the to do list. But you chose to make her feel foolish and humiliated in front of your daughter. If you aren't respecting your wife neither will your daughter." ~ Evilsquirre1
"This was a valid conversation to have, but not in front of your daughter and not as a joke. You didn't have to expose her so that your daughter could laugh in her face about it."
"You could have asked her why she felt a need to put the task on a list instead of just completing the task right then instead of assuming she was just being silly and ridiculing her."
"You wrote that she's highly organized and that you benefit from those organizational skills, but you made fun of your wife for it. Your daughter now thinks her mother's organizational skills are a joke to be laughed at. You did that. If you value your wife, you need to fix it. YTA." ~ miyuki_m
The OP and his wife should try to find a balance between organization and efficiency.
But if they can't, there will be future situations exactly like this.
Not laughing in his wife's face next time will also make life easier for everyone.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp