Childbirth isn't like it's usually depicted on TV shows or movies. At the end, mom isn't perfectly coifed with model perfect makeup.
Giving birth is messy, painful, and exhausting. So who wants to host a family gathering after expelling a 5-10 pound human from their body?
At one time, all childbirths took place in the home, usually surrounded by the women of their family or a village midwife. Then some cultures adopted birthing centers or hospitals.
Today, we're back to a mix of home and hospital or birthing center births.
At one point, only women attended births, helping the mother through labor. But in many cultures where the roles of women and men were changing, more men began to feel empowered to embrace parenthood.
Fathers were attending their children's births instead of being relegated to waiting rooms or the pub down the way.
But while family births are partly a return to the past and a modern convention, how crowded is too crowded?
A mom-to-be turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback over who should be invited in to witness the birth or immediate aftermath.
Historywhiz63 asked:
"AITA for not caring about 'honoring' my in-laws?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"Let me preface with that I fully understand that many people have different viewpoints of 'honoring' their parents. We are both White—I understand that many cultures have different norms than we would."
"So my husband and I apparently have differing views about honoring our parents, and I've been made out to be the 'a**hole' by his family multiple times."
"His family is not respecting of boundaries I've put up, and he (husband) also put up, and so I've definitely been a bit more rigid about things."
"My husband already ruined what I wanted for our wedding by inviting his whole extended family as his parents wanted him to (I wanted something more intimate), letting his mother take unwanted 'formal' wedding pictures which made me uncomfortable (we'd hired a photographer), and just other various things."
"They push and push and push and it's suffocating."
"Anyways—now I've become the a**hole again because I don't want to 'honor' his parents by letting them see me and our firstborn child within the first 24 hours of me giving birth. I don't want my parents there, either, I just want it to be the two of us."
"I originally told my husband I didn't want anyone for a couple of days, but after he pushed me I said they could come after the first 24 hours (which I'm not feeling good about)."
"I already know myself and my body and my emotions, and with how overbearing his parents are—I know it's going to be hell for me."
"Not sure he understands quite yet what a mess I'm gonna be!"
"He claims that the birth isn't 'just about us, it's about our parents, too' which I laughed in his face about—maybe that's a**hole-ish."
"He says it's because his grandparents were there when he was born. He hasn't quite come to the concept that we're not his parents or grandparents and can start new traditions."
"My parents don't believe their first grandchild is about them, and so I'm not sure where my husband and his parents get this notion."
"AITA for sticking my ground and refusing that?"
"I feel like I'm going literally insane."
The OP summed up their situation.
"Standing ground on not letting in-laws be close to me or baby for 24 hours after birth of first child."
"This is seen as making me an a**hole because I'm not being 'honoring' towards my in-laws."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA. Dear lord, do we have the same in-laws? Because I swear mine act like this."
"If your in-laws are particularly religious (like mine are) remind them about the concept of 'leaving and cleaving' where it's laid out that a man shall leave his mother and father and become one with his wife…meaning what they want takes a back seat."
"You are your husband's priority. You can still honor your parents without bending to their every whim."
"This is something my husband and I fought through as well and it caused a LOT of problems early in our relationship and into our marriage."
"Stand your ground."
"Trust me, it took a LOT. Hubby and I turned to one of the elders and his wife in our church to help us navigate the transition from being under their 'roof' so to speak, to having and starting our own family with our own way of doing things based on what we felt was right."
"Having that conversation really encouraged my husband to step up in our home to defend our decisions and by extension, me. Once those boundaries were re-established, things have gone better."
"They still over step from time to time for the sake of 'spoiling' their grandbabies, but they ultimately know their place." ~ Necessary-Extreme596
"I thought the same thing about it too. Same in-laws."
"Although my father-in-law (FIL) is not as bad. My mother-in-law (MIL) is absolutely a monster."
"We aren't religious—she is super religious. I respect her right to believe, but she has been extremely pushy with her beliefs."
"We had to get married in a church (OK), then it was no, it had to be a cathedral (what!). My husband gave in."
"She to wanted to invite extended family and friends we had never even met. She tried to invite double the people than my husband, me, and my parents combined!"
"That was drastically cut real fast."
"When I was having my daughter who is now 21, she wanted to be in the delivery room while I delivered. She came in while I was in very early labor."
"The midwife had to kick her out of the delivery room when she wouldn't leave when I asked and she kept trying to come back in. Baby was maybe 3 hours old and she was back."
"And the first thing that horrible woman said to me was, 'I'm disappointed, I wanted a boy'."
"And she's tried to meddle in how we raise our daughter the entire time. All the time reminding us that it was such a shame her first grandchild was a girl, but at least her other daughter-in-law (DIL) gave her 2 grandsons."
"And would actually badmouth her to her face from so young she knows no difference. I won't have anything to do with her now and neither does my daughter."
"Stand your ground. And don't let your husband back down. My husband had no spine when it came to his mother. It's a hard battle to put boundaries in place if your husband won't help enforce them." ~ Skankyho1
"Make sure everyone in the hospital knows this and more importantly, make sure they no know that only you can authorize a change. Not your husband."
"And make sure they know to check with you and verify if he tries to tell them you changed your mind. Labor and delivery (L&D) nurses don't f*ck around as long as you're very specific."
"You are the patient. You and only you make the rules. Not your husband and definitely not your in-laws. NTA." ~ GoblinKing79
"OK, one, tell him that YOUR MEDICAL PROCEDURE is NOT about his parents, it's about you, your child, your body and your recovery."
"If he can not understand that he needs to undergo an invasive and painful medical proceedure then be told to suck it up while your parents visit less than 24hrs later."
"I'm being polite here because as a mother of 3 who has gone through 3 childbirth, two of which were without pain relief, I would be using more graphic language regarding watermelons and peas."
"Two, remind him that his actions and demands regarding his parents have been allowing them (in-laws) to DISHONOUR your relationship and marriage and that he needs to step up and start respecting you as his wife and equal partner in your marriage."
"You are NTA sweetie, but you do have a husband problem and it needs to be sorted out ASAP. Preferably before the baby arrives because unfortunately I feel you're going to be overruled in parenting decisions for the sake of 'honouring' your husband's parents."
"Please pull your medical team aside and tell them that under no circumstances are your in-laws to be given access to you and your baby without your permission."
"I remember a lot of first time mums are usually monitored overnight where I am and I hope that applies to you as well because it can protect you somewhat from these people." ~ Environmental_Art591
"Yep, OP, you're the one giving birth so YOU call the shots. Family, honor, tradition, none of it matters. The health and wellbeing of you and your baby matters most."
"Your in-laws (ILs) have the rest of their lives to spend with this baby. Stand your ground here."
"And, for what it's worth, the first day or so after giving birth is ROUGH—I speak from experience. You're tired, sore, etc... and that assumes there are no complications with the birth."
"When I went into labor with my first, we made the mistake of calling my IL's who decided to RUSH to the hospital and then proceeded to sit around for nine hours until he was born."
"They literally came into the recovery room within 10 minutes of me being settled in and, honestly, it was too much. I was spent."
"I had labored for about 11 hours, pushed for 2 of that, hadn't gotten a decent amount of sleep in about 36 hours and just couldn't."
"My husband could tell I was struggling, so he let my ILs coo over the baby for 10-15 minutes, said he was starving (true!) and had his parents take him out for dinner. I was able to rest, snuggle with my baby and bond. Bliss."
"With my second, we learned from our mistakes. We called NO ONE (other than my mom who had to pick up my older son to babysit him) until about three hours after the baby was born."
"SO MUCH BETTER! Might be something to consider if you can get your husband on board. Don't call ANYONE until you're ready to accept visitors." ~ Pascale73
The OP hasn't provided an update, so it's unclear what they've decided to do.
But they definitely have plenty of support for standing their ground with their husband and in-laws.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp