When we're hurt, many of us default to lashing out at the one who hurt us.
This is a natural response and, while not the healthiest reaction to pain, certainly an understandable one.
However, what happens when someone rises above this primal instinct and treats their pain as a passing condition - only to be mocked for it anyway?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) StockOne1667 when they came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
They asked:
"AITA for calling my mom's treatment of my dad's mistress 'gracious' and upsetting my fiancee?"
OP laid out the background.
"A few years ago my dad had a pretty public affair (they thought they were being discreet but everyone knew) with a woman about 15 years younger than him."
"My father was up until this point a very stoic unemotional person and this was totally out of character, and everyone was talking about it. He ended up leaving my mom for her."
"My mom was totally ice cold during all of this and even as her son I can't gauge if it hurt her or not."
"She had zero reaction."
"She's never said anything bad about him."
"Even when I tried getting her to open up she just wouldn't (but this is around the time I began dating my fiancee and she doesn't like her and began to ice me out as well)"
"My dad married his affair partner recently, and I proposed to my fiancee."
Later,
"We had an engagement party and it was probably the first time we were all together."
"MIL and her friends hate my dad and his fiancee, because I think they worry about their husbands getting ideas."
OP then got to the issue at hand.
"MIL made a snarky comment about how when men leave for a younger woman isn't she supposed to be prettier, and my dad might have done it wrong because my mom is much more attractive."
"All of her friends laughed and my dad's wife looked like she was dying inside."
"My mom told my MIL to stop and she doesn't like women who pit women against each other, and said his wife is beautiful."
"When we walked away, I told my mom that was very gracious and I was proud of her."
"I wasn't even talking to my fiancee but she lost it."
"She said I was gross for praising my mom for being gracious when she should be being a 'petty b*tch'.
"She said I was an affair apologist and it made her nervous, and that I should have been laughing at her mom's comment."
"My mom called my fiancee an idiot and walked away."
OP was left confused,
"my fiancee is still upset I used that words and keeps saying it was sexist and 1950s but can't really explain."
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judgment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: NTA
Some pointed out that this really wasn't fiance's business.
"NTA".
"Your mom handled it in the way she felt was appropriate for her own character and morals to handle it."
"She chose to keep it classy and not make a scene."
"She's the one who gets to choose for herself."
"Even if she's internalizing, that's something she can talk through with people she trusts or a therapist, she does not have any obligation to display her pain to those people."
"Not everyone has to turn themselves into an ugly person because something ugly happened to them."
"Your mom is a class act and you were right for telling her so." ~eroverton
"Your mom is the wronged party so everyone should take her lead."
"The fact that your fiancée thinks public humiliation when it is someone else’s event is ok is a red flag."
"You should be worried she’ll pull petty bs on you. Nta" ~beito14159
Agreed. OP's mom is acting like a mature adult despite what went down with her ex.
MIL, her friends, and OP's fiance are acting like immature school-yard mean girls. Bullying is still wrong even if said bully feels they have a reason to do so ~ Electrical-Date-3951
For others, this was about self-worth.
"OP your mum has class and knows her worth."
"It wasn't worth her time to wallow over her cheating ex and it isn't worth her time to engage in petty bs."
"As others are saying perhaps she doesn't like your partner for some valid reasons (highlighted by her petty, cruel, insecure actions you've described which seem to be a family trait that she's proud of)."
"Your partner (and her mother) should be apologizing to your mother for making a difficult part of her life into their own ammunition for drama."
"Your mother steps above it but do they seriously not think it doesn't upset her everytime someone throws in her face that her husband cheated and left her?"
"And then your partner is mad at your mother for not being a harpy about it?"
"No wonder she dislikes her." ~ StickyAction
"OP's fiancee may not be mature enough to understand the POWER in (OP's) Mom's response, not just graciousness."
"It makes her almost untouchable now as an object of pity/disgrace. She is her own woman who can see the truth without it diminishing her."
"OP, who values the dignity of his mother, would do well to seek that in a life partner."
"The fiancee does not seem to value what OP values."
"The fiancee values drama that can be sustained by bad feeling for years, decades even. OP beware!" ~ CymraegAmerican
Though the motivations were unclear, OP's mom was definitely victorious.
"Not only power, but now the affair partner KNOWS what everyone else thinks about her (instead of just whisper)."
"And having the woman she wronged defend her publicly is going to hurt soooo much worse than any petty mean girl stuff."
"Might even make AP start to wonder why hubby would cheat on and leave such a powerful, successful, gracious woman." ~ PollyAnnaLikeABird
"Mom has three possible motivations:"
"She's publicly taken the moral high ground as a tactical choice, she wants to avoid any further drama and upheaval, or she's a genuine saint."
"And no matter which it is, she's unquestionably in the right."
"She has Won At Divorce." ~ Mammoth-Corner
Responses also pointed out the larger disparity between Mom and Fiance.
"I guess we now know why the Mom started dropping contact with OP, when their fiancé came into the picture."
"It seems Mom saw the marinara flags well ahead of time. Honestly OP, maybe reconsider your choice of fiancé. NTA and your Mom seems like an extremely stand-up person." ~ Liveandletlive_
"OP's partner probably also didn't like the fact that his mom's classy answer contrasted so much with her own mother's mean mom gang comment and made OP's mom a much bigger person than her own mom."
"I would say she is more upset about OP's mom making her mom look bad than any of the 'sexist/1950s' reason she is giving. ~ nutwit9211
"u/StockOne1667 op, please read this."
"Consider what this situation is telling you about the kind of person your fiancée is."
"You and your mother deserve better."
"All women do (than the treatment your fiancée and her family are willing to do at the cost of others)." ~ FairyOfTheNight
There was also fear that this was only a taste of things to come.
"OP, 100% this."
"Your fiance just took her mask off. She is petty and vindictive."
"Your Mom handled a difficult situation with grace where your fiancee and her mother behaved like classless buffoons and bullies."
"Think long and hard about who you want raising your children."
"Your wife and her mother will directly influence who your children become and quite honestly, dealing with their BS every family gathering is going to get exhausting really fast."
"I have no doubt that your Dad's behavior hurt your Mom tremendously, but for your sake and because she has class, she rose above it and put her feelings aside so she could raise you in a way that didn't pit you and your Dad against each other."
"THAT is class and that is a type of grace that I don't think I have."
"Your fiancee and her Mom didn't have to take the low road."
"There was nothing in it for them to attack your Dad's wife."
"They just did it to be petty and mean because they wanted to."
"Think really hard about that because that is the type of crap you will deal with when you displease your fiancee." ~ thingsarelookingup2
"I completely agree."
"OP's mom handled herself with class and restraint."
"Everyone should be taking their lead from how she wishes to handle it, not piling on because they enjoy tearing others down."
"OP's fiance just showed her ugly character, and she's pissed because it made her look cruel and trashy in the face of OP's mother's grace and diplomacy."
"OP, you have just had a clear view of who your wife truly is inside."
"I'd personally not want to spend my life with someone like that."
"I guarantee that cruelty will be turned on to you in the future when your wife doesn't get her way."
"Or when you don't fall in line with her behavior."
"Think about if that's what you want your future to look like. If that's what you want your future children ( if you wish to have them) to experience."
We all hurt sometimes.
Whether that pain is intentionally inflicted or an accident of circumstance, it is up to us how we deal with it.
Whatever way we choose to deal with our hurt, that choice can't belong to anyone but us - and no one has the right to judge us for it.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp