When it comes to children, whether we like kids or are interested in having kids of our own, we all have our own opinions about how to interact with kids of various ages.
From baby talk to immersive play to screen time, there is an endless number of decisions a person has to make about their interactions with a child, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit, but one of the big ones definitely has to be the use of baby talk.
Redditor Aggressive_Scheme539 had proudly raised a very smart, mature, and individualistic six-year-old daughter who was adamantly against being baby-talked to.
But when she went so far as to insult an adult who had used baby talk around her, the Original Poster (OP) questioned if she needed to teach her daughter more about boundaries.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for not making my daughter apologize to the woman who spoke to her like a baby?"
The OP's daughter was incredibly independent and mature.
"I have a daughter, Katie, who is six years old. She is a very smart and straightforward little girl."
"People are often surprised by what comes out of her mouth."
"We do talk about filtering but as she's six, she's not always the best at it. I admit, I didn't use a lot of baby talk when she was younger and do speak to her as I would an adult."
One adult recently took the baby talking way too far for Katie's liking.
"Katie has a babysitter, Lauren, who watches her some afternoons if I'm not off by the time Katie is done with school."
"One night, I had to work late. Lauren's mom, Julie, stopped by at one point to drop something off. Now, I wasn't there, but by Lauren's own admission, her mom can be a lot."
"The following is a recount from Lauren and Katie has confirmed it when I discussed it with her privately."
"Julie began gushing about how cute Katie is and began baby-talking her, using cutesy words, pronouncing things with w's, etc."
"Lauren was cooking dinner for herself and Katie. Julie turned to Katie and asked, 'Are you weddy (ready) for your nummies?'"
"Katie got a weird look on her face and asked, 'Why are you talking to me like that? Are you stupid or something?'"
"Julie got offended and Lauren told Katie to apologize. Katie said no and told Lauren to stop talking like a baby. Julie left not long after."
Lauren expected the OP's daughter to apologize to her mother.
"When Lauren relayed the story, I said maybe Katie shouldn't have been so candid but Julie shouldn't have talked to her like an infant."
"Lauren said she just wanted Katie to apologize to her mom. I said Julie should apologize to Katie for treating her like a baby."
"I did talk to Katie about being more polite. She seemed to be receptive."
"When I told my mom about the whole situation, she was appalled. She said Julie was probably just trying to be nice and didn't realize how mature Katie was. She said Katie should absolutely apologize."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some argued that Katie needed to learn to be polite while setting boundaries.
"I notice a lot of people saying, 'She needs to learn.' I wonder if we can also think about it as, 'That's one, perfectly valid, way to approach it, but here's another.'"
"I think Katie's response to being insulted repeatedly by Julie is a valid one. After all, she did a great job setting boundaries and not allowing that unacceptable behavior to continue just to protect Julie's feelings. But it would also be nice and empathetic of Katie to first assume Julie was unaware her actions were offensive."
"So Katie might consider telling Julie more gently, 'Please don't talk to me like I'm a baby.' Or something to that effect. Tone plays an important role here so that's a great teachable moment."
"I think Katie did the right thing in the first instance telling Julie she wanted that behavior to stop. But she can add more strings to her bow by learning different approaches to resolving conflict." - Mundane_Plenty8305
"There's absolutely no reason to be rude. It's not like she said, 'Please speak to me in a more appropriate tone.' She asked if an adult she didn't know was stupid."
"I was an advanced child, as well, but my parents taught me how to behave, especially around strangers. She was at best sarcastic and at worst condescending to a complete stranger."
"Parents should teach her better than that but I suspect that they think it's okay for her to mouth off since she's intelligent. Young children should not feel comfortable being sarcastic or rude to adult strangers. It sets a bad precedent for future behavior as an AH adult."
"I was raised in a very sarcastic family and had a dry sense of humor for as long as I can remember. My parents taught me the importance of context and audience. It's something that you absolutely need to learn as a young child so you don't grow up to be a completely unlikable jacka** with no manners." - Littlest-Fig
"OP needs to have her daughter apologize. In this case, the woman was talking like she was 'stupid' because she was using inappropriate baby talk. But what if someone talks to OP's daughter who sounds 'stupid' to her because of another reason, like mental illness or a developmental delay? What if another child who is not as advanced as OP's daughter talks to her and she asks them if they're stupid?"
"It's fine that OP's daughter does not want to be talked to like a baby, but she can't just ask people if they're stupid." - werebothsquidward
"I also wonder how Katie would react to someone who has a genuine speech impediment, cognitive disability, doesn't speak English as a primary language, etc."
"Katie needs to be taught that some people speak differently and that you can ask, but not insult." - Usrname52
"'Why are you talking like that?' is fine. 'Are you stupid or something' crosses the line into rude and disrespectful. So, help your daughter craft an appropriate apology for saying that. In person, or a note. And make sure she understands what tact is and how to speak respectfully to anyone she might come across. It'll make her life much easier if she knows how to be polite." - DogbiteNotDimple
But others found Katie and Julie to be fairly equally at fault.
"I'm a teacher, who mostly teaches six- to seven-year-olds year olds. NOBODY speaks to them like they're babies, not their parents or siblings or family members that visit school. (Edit: in Australia, the 'baby talk' thing isn't as common here as it was in the US when I was over there.)"
"I think it's really weird that Julie saw a six-year-old and thought, 'I better speak to this child like they're a toddler.'"
"But I also think it's important that Katie learns the impact of her words on other people. 'Are you stupid?' Isn't the right way to retaliate, but she's young, and she's learning. I do believe she should apologize for calling Julie stupid, and that Julie should apologize for talking to Katie like she's a baby."
"ESH." - JadedDragonfly571
"I think they both need to apologize to each other. They were both rude, and the adult started it. I had that happen a lot as a kid (I was tiny for my age so everyone thought I was younger than I actually was, and they'd talk to me like I was a toddler even at ages five or six)."
"I wasn't rude about it, though. My dad taught me to say, 'I can't understand you, are you okay?' They'd look shocked and usually stopped the baby talk, at least for that interaction." - Different-Leather359
"ESH. I suspect that OP's daughter wouldn't hesitate to pull out 'Are you stupid' to other kids her age, because that's not a phrase that indicates confusion or genuine curiosity, that's a phrase that indicates judgment, and is so specific that I have to believe she's already comparing herself to others and is aware that she's considered smart for her age."
"The babysitter's mom shouldn't have talked like that and should have apologized to the girl. But it's also a big problem that OP refuses to ask her daughter to apologize: you don't get to be rude to people because they do things you don't like. That's socializing 101. And the babysitter's mom's gaffe does not cancel out OP's daughter's rudeness." - strawberrysasquatch
"ESH."
"Sure, it was not cool for Julie to all goo goo gaa gaa. But the kid didn't need to call her stupid. You can't play both sides of the field, expect people to talk to her like an adult and to know off an assumption that she's a straightforward talker, and then in the same vein, let her get away with things like a baby."
"A normal kid should be taught not to call someone stupid in such a rude was unprovoked. Neither should a teenager nor an adult."
"Cool and all that you taught her behind the scenes, but she should have apologized, and based on what you wrote, a post apology doesn't seem in the cards. It's fine for your daughter to question why Julie is talking to her like that and all she needed to say was don't do it, please. But jumping straight to 'Are you dumb' or something is unnecessary and should have been corrected."
"I really don't see much wrong intent from Julie's side except a careless mistake. If she'd push the matter further then yeah, she would be an AH." - starfire92
"I am bemused by anyone using baby talk at all. Why are they not modeling actual language? It's bizarre. (I am Australian, too.) But I am even more weirded out by this presumably mature adult being offended by the unfiltered thoughts that come out of the mouth of a six-year-old. I mean, it's certainly looking like the question is valid. Is she stupid or something?"
"I would tell Katie that it is not socially acceptable to say that, but I would not make her apologize. First, I do not believe in teaching kids they have to be obsequious to adults just because they're adults, and second, she was right. Third, Julie isn't going to apologize for treating Katie inappropriately, and apologizing to her will only reinforce her belief that her own behavior was correct."
"This looks like everyone went home but it's still a thing and Julie isn't letting it go, which is also ridiculous. NTA. Why is this still a thing? Talk to the kid about not saying unkind things to people regardless of how richly she thinks it's deserved, and leave it there."
"Also, there's a high risk of a not-pology. Like Katie says, 'I'm sorry you're offended about being stupid, and mum says I shouldn't have pointed out that you're stupid.' Because that is not going to help." - Llyris-erisen
Though the subReddit was divided over whether Julie's use of baby talk was simply inappropriate or 'stupid' as Katie had said, they could all agree that Katie would be better off apologizing and also learning how to set boundaries appropriately.
Since she was concerned about how people addressed her, she should also be concerned about how she addressed other people.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp