Children are easily influenced.
That is why it is important for parents not to encourage poor behavior.
Even if it is in the privacy of our own homes, and they aren't bothering others, it's important to let them know that such behavior isn't ok,
As if they become too comfortable behaving that way, they might find themselves becoming too comfortable behaving that way when out in public,
The neurodivergent daughter of Redditor RockyRoad776 was easily amused by bodily functions, both from others and herself.
As a result, the original poster (OP) had to frequently remind her of appropriate behavior, namely at the dinner table and in front of company.
After she ignored these warnings at a recent family gathering, the OP felt there was only one solution.
Worried she may have been too hard on her, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for sending my daughter to her room because she farted at our family dinner?"
The OP explained that after her daughter appeared to ignore her first two warnings of bad behavior, she felt there was only one way to drive the message home.
"My daughter is 14 years old, I'll call her Rosie to maintain privacy."
"She's the middle child of 4 kids, with my oldest sons being 16, 18, and youngest son is 10."
"She is my only daughter."
"She has high functioning autism and is starting to model some of the boy's behaviors, and to the next level."
"She has some sort of a fart fetish."
"She laughs at farts, looks up every fact on farting, including foods that trigger gas, etc., watches fart pranks on her ipad out loud."
'All without any regard to the context of the situation.'
"I wish I was joking."
"I have taught her and our sons table manners."
"I've been teaching them and reinforcing them since they were little."
"They were told to say excuse me when they belch."
"Cover their mouth when they cough and sneeze."
"Close their mouth when they eat. Very basic table manners."
"Some of these things I tell her each time it's like I told her the first time."
"Their grandparents, aunt and uncle and their younger cousins were invited over to our thanksgiving dinner."
"I set expectations with the entire family to be on their best behavior, and leave topics regarding bodily functions out of the dinner table."
"Dinner underway, she gulped down a cup of lemonade and then proceeded to belch a few times, which the family turned to gaze at her."
"I reminded her to say excuse me and hold in her burps."
"In the middle of a discussion with the rest of the family."
"She passed gas and giggled."
"The entire family looked at her direction with stern gazes, and some jaw drops."
"It was after the 3rd time, I threw my hands and shook my head at her, telling her to go to her room and that her actions were disgusting, rude and not ladylike and she needs to excuse herself to do that."
"Her father smirked a little and some of the little ones giggled which I told them 'enough. It's not funny'."
"My daughter apologized and stated that she will be careful, which I then responded that she had the multiple times you belched, smacked during the entire dinner, and farted, she had more than enough time to correct herself.'
"This is unacceptable to be doing this behavior when people are having a meal and I raised her better than this and we will have this conversation later and for now go to her room."
"She went to her room in tears."
"After a conversation with my daughter with the behaviors, she apologized again and said that she was trying to make everyone laugh and didn't expect people to get mad."
"I did remind her that it was actually rude, and she is expected to not do that again with company over."
'After a conversation with my husband who passes gas very casually(thankfully doesn't do it with company over), he said that I was being too harsh on her and it was just a fart, which I did call him out on him smirking at dinner and stated that she modeled her behavior from him."
"A part of me agreed with him, and thought I was too harsh on her and made a big deal over nothing."
"Was I being too hard on her reddit?"
"AITA."
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community generally agreed that the OP was not the a**Hole for sending her daughter to her room.
Nearly everyone agreed that the OP's daughter needed to learn that she wasn't behaving appropriately, regardless of the fact that she was neurodivergent.
"NTA."
"This right here is why I came to this decision."
"You need to make sure she understands that there is a time, and place for everything; and very often what she finds hilarious, may be very offensive for someone else."
"With your husband giving you crap for it, I'd say turn it back on him."
"Ask him how he'd feel if he was at his parents' funerals and someone rudely farted in an effort to be funny?"
"I know that's a harsh way to put it, but it seems part of the issue is your husband doesn't seem to grasp how offensive that behavior can be."- kibufox
"NTA."
"Except for the 'ladylike' part."
"Girls should not be held to a higher standard than boys. Using the phrase 'not polite' is better."-ladyfeyrey
"NTA."
"Seems like basic manners to at least say excuse me."
"Not sit there and giggle."-Aggravating_Start411
"NTA."
"Some people think farts are funny, some don't."
"In my opinion it is never funny to fart, or hear or smell a fart, when at a dining table."
"So i don't think you are the a**hole for telling her to stop and sending her away from the table."
"Because as you pointed out she had numerous chances to contain her belches but she didn't and she chose to up the ante and fart to get attention, pure and simple."
"And by calling her out like you did, it have her attention, negative attention, but attention nonetheless."
"I think you could've corrected her differently in a way that she would remember but without seeming so harsh."
"Neurodivergent or not, I'm sure she knew it was wrong and simply kept misbehaving until she was the focus of attention."
"You also need to get your husband on board to model appropriate behavior, since she seems to be following in his farting footsteps and even if he conforms he needs to not smirk or laugh at all because."
"That encourages her misbehavior."- Gladtobealive2020
"NTA."
"Basic social etiquette is an important life skill."
"You gave her multiple corrections and followed up with a conversation explaining where she went wrong."- ChrissyChadd
"NTA."
"If all your children are held to the same level of manners consistently."
"Also, she admitted she belched and farted on purpose for laughs."
"Teaching children how to behave in social situations is called parenting."
"It's not the same as 'not accepting them for who they are'."
"I know a lot of people will come down on you for the 'ladylike' comment but if you are holding everyone to the same level, you can say 'that is not proper at the dinner table'."
"Also, you need to have a talk with you husband and get everyone on the same page for household behavior."- missaprile
There were others, however, who while they didn't necessarily think the OP did anything wrong, they also weren't sure sending her to her room was the best punishment, particularly telling her she wasn't being "ladlylike".
"As a fellow neurodivergent person, I'm wondering if there is a hyperfixation and/or stim aspect of this?"
"Are there ways you can engage with this in a positive way?"
"Gastroenterology is a whole medical field, so while your daughter's interest isn't appropriate for the dinner table, there are places and contexts where it is."
"I'm wondering if the table behavior would decrease if there was another outlet where she could explore this interest without shame."
"Social situations like big family dinners can be extra difficult for a neurodivergent person."
"Your daughter might not always remember not to 'smack' when she eats or say excuse me every time because there is so much to focus on just to show up for the dinner."
"Also it seems like her behavior bothers you the most and it bothers you more than that of the men in your family."
"Your husband 'passes gas freely' but it's 'not ladylike' when your daughter does it?"
"Did your sons not laugh at farts when they were 14?"
"Expecting your daughter to not belch and fart throughout family dinner is fine."
"What's less fine is only responding with punishment when your autistic daughter needs support in social situations."- notbanana13
It is important for everyone to know when they've behaved in a way that was inappropriate.
Even if one could also understand how the OP's daughter might genuinely have not seen the harm in what she was doing.
Mainly as her father seemed to encourage her behavior.
Hopefully, the OP and her husband might reach some common ground in how their daughter might effectively learn right and wrong from both of them.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp