Baby showers are meant to be a beautiful celebration to celebrate the expecting parent.
It's their time to be fawned over and given the spotlight.
Ninety-nine percent of pregnancy is about the baby.
A baby shower should be a relaxing, fun day for the parent-to-be.
And what they say... goes.
Redditor NuclearMichy wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback, so naturally, she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"AITA for Standing by My Rule of No Children at My Baby Shower?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"Hello. I, 29 F[emale], am currently 29 weeks pregnant with my first baby."
"My baby shower is only two weeks away, and I recently found out that my S[ister]-I[n]-L[aw], 31 F, has been holding a grudge against my rule for my baby shower that I thought we had overcome a month ago."
"My mom has been working diligently to throw me a baby shower, as this is her first grandchild, and she has always had a complex about throwing the perfect events for her children, even though we all tell her that we would be happy with anything she works on."
"We have accepted that this is her way of showing her love and usually let her run the show, as all of her children, I especially, have never had too many desires to control these parties and would rather let her do her own thing."
"This is to preface that the way she set up the baby shower was in the way she was used to having baby showers."
"She booked a lovely small venue with a bar and a very adult/older children atmosphere."
"Due to this, I wanted to invite only the women and no children because the idea of having children running rampant in a restaurant setting would have me stressed to the max, which is the last thing I would want for that day."
"I honestly prefer the way my mom had set things up to allow it to be lowkey, as overly crowded events for me make me feel uncomfortable."
"My side of the family is used to this kind of setup at baby showers, and honestly, we did not even have to mention to them to leave their children at home with their husbands because that's just the way we have had all of our baby showers in the past with no unnecessary drama."
"Enter sister-in-law who has a son that will be turning 2 in a month."
"When we originally informed her of the rule we had set for the event, she had a meltdown."
"She was beyond offended because she is my husband's sister, and there should be an exception for him."
"Due to this, we spent almost two months without hearing a single thing from her, up until a month ago, when she, I assume, made the realization that I wasn't some vindictive monster and talked with her at a family barbecue like a normal adult, while playing with her son."
"The past month has seemed to be as normal as usual, communication has been back to normal, and I thought we were over this hump, but I was wrong."
"At another family get-together to see my husband's cousin, who flew in from out of state, she apparently was continuing to complain about this issue almost four months after the original communication."
"My husband and I had found this out through his cousin, who let us know she was going on about this before we got there."
"Now I feel irritated because I have done everything to show her that this is not a personal attack on her and that I really just don't want to worry about a child in a place not accommodating to children."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA, you are allowed to have the baby shower you want, but man, you are in for a world of hurt when you have this kid and realize how hostile the world is towards kids."
"Having kids is so isolating bc child-free people don't want kids anywhere."
"I had kids at my baby shower bc I love kids, and that is why I wanted one."
"My friend's daughter was the official gift helper, and she apparently loved it so much she played baby shower for months after it ended."
"ETA: I meant child-hating/anti-natal people, not child-free people." ~ HisGirlFriday1983
"Speaking as a child-free person, we do not want to disallow children everywhere."
"We don't want children in adult spaces like bars, brew pubs, and R-rated movies."
"We want you to keep your children under control, not screaming indoors or running around a restaurant or any other non-playground space."
"The world is not hostile to kids. In fact, it's over-accommodating---children in adult spaces, screaming and chattering during the movie, and treating a bar like a playground---and they're never asked to leave."
"The rest of us are just supposed to put up with it."
"It's fine to have children at your shower if that's what you want (provided you're actually watching your child and making sure they behave)."
"It's also fine to want and have a child-free event."
"It's not hostility, it's a choice to have an event for adults only." ~ YoshiKoshi
"I'm not sure I 100% believe your edit because at first you seemed to be coming from the belief that childfree people and child-hating people are necessarily the same thing."
"And no, the world isn't hostile to children, certainly not as hostile as it is towards childfree people; so many allowances are made for parents and children in this world, and others expected to tolerate entitled or shi**y behavior from either or both, that it's completely rich to suggest that having kids is some kind of heroic social martyrdom.
"NTA OP - this is about your SIL being entitled and demanding and frankly an embarrassment, if she's the only one that has a problem with your request." ~ blackskirtwhitecat
"NTA… A two-year-old at any event where it is strictly adults will change the vibe."
"Can she seriously not leave her child with his father for a few hours?"
"Or the paternal grandparents?"
"Why is she so offended?"
"Does she not want some me time?"
"Your husband needs to tell his sister that there are no children invited to your baby shower."
"End of story."
"She has two choices."
"Enjoy some child-free time or stay home." ~ Worth-Season3645
"NTA. I think it's awesome that your family has a culture of expecting men to actually parent their kids and let women enjoy adult venues from time to time."
"So many people expect moms to be glued to their children 24/7, and it's just not healthy."
"If SIL is married to someone who can't watch their child for a couple of hours with months of notice, then her problem isn't really with you or the invite list to your shower." ~ messy_tuxedo_cat
"NTA, but the irony is hilarious."
"Oh, first-time parents." ~ Abject-Idea-7804
"It's your baby shower, so NTA I guess, but I have been to like two dozen baby showers and have never even heard of someone banning children from one."
"I would find it very strange to be invited to a baby shower that didn't allow kids, but at the end of the day, it's your event and you can make the rules." ~ lvs301
"NTA, but I've never heard of a child-free baby shower."
"It's extremely odd to me."
"You are literally celebrating having a kid, but kids aren't welcome? Odd."
"However, it's your event."
"You set the rules."
"If she doesn't like it or can't find a sitter, she can miss your shower."
"You WBTA if she missed your shower and you complained about it."
"Child-free events are fine, but it can be limiting for some people." ~ hotmessmamaof2
"You are NTA, and nothing has to change."
"You are having a child-free baby shower, that's your goal, and you've achieved that."
"She's no longer freezing you out, and she's not even complaining to you."
"Cousin didn't have to pass on that gossip, and you don't have to act on it." ~ Firm-Molasses-4913
"NTA. That's pretty unusual to include guests' children in a baby shower, even if they are relatives."
"A 2-year-old is quite a handful and would need constant supervision in a busy restaurant, which would really not be safe for him.
"Stick to your guns." ~ wondering88888
"NTA - I went to a baby shower, kids were invited to."
"I left my then 2-year-old at home so I could actually enjoy myself because he can be a lot."
"Honestly, I enjoy being able to socialize without having my kid around sometimes."
"It's not really socializing if he's out unless it's a contained space - like someone's house/yard."
"Playgrounds seem great, but I have a runner who is also overconfident in his climbing ability." ~ somethingclever1712
"NTA. It would be one thing if she simply didn't want to attend due to the rule, but obviously the fuss she's raising makes her TA."
"She should rsvp no and be done with it." ~ andromache97
OP came back to chat...
"Just wanted to add this here in case people don't want to go through all the comments."
"My family is extremely small (mom's side only) and has very few children, as our generation just started having kids."
"My family has never had a baby shower with kids in them, as the mothers opt to leave their children with their fathers."
"My husband's side is not much bigger and has a total of two children, one of whom already has childcare planned."
"SIL would be the only one bringing her child if I did not mention this to her directly, and the event has no children's entertainment."
"She also has a husband who can watch him, and my husband has offered to watch him and bring him at the end of the event."
Reddit is with you, OP.
This is your party and your special day.
If your SIL can't bear to be separated from her son for one afternoon, that's her issue to deal with.
She has childcare if she wants it.
Try not to let her bother you.
Congratulations!!!
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp