Money. It can really stir up a whole mess of drama.
For generations, everyone has been told to stay silent about earnings and wealth.
It's almost been taboo to discuss finances in good company.
But all that seems to be changing, thankfully.
Case in point...
Redditor colette195 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for telling relatives how much I make and defending my salary?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"Over the weekend, I (23 F[emale]) went to dinner with some of my dad's relatives who I don't see very often."
"My dad has never gotten along with my uncle (his brother) and I haven't either."
"He's rude, condescending, and we don't agree with him on a lot of things."
"Normally I just try to ignore him."
"However, at dinner, my uncle asked me about the car I had shown up in and my new job.
"I started my job a little over a year ago after graduating college and I worked hard for it."
"I make a lot of money and I'm proud of that. (Software engineer)."
"I recently bought myself the dream car I've always wanted."
"Uncle asked 'How much are they paying you anyway?' in a condescending tone, and I just point blank told him how much I make."
"I guess I was supposed to laugh and say something like 'Oh, enough' but I told him the number."
"He started going off on a rant about how no 23-year-old should make that much money and how stupid my company is for paying me that much."
"I got pissed and said 'I deserve every penny I make. I work hard and most people can't do what I do.'"
"Well, I guess this really made my uncle angry, because after dinner I received a text from my cousin saying I had been really rude at dinner and insulted my uncle's intelligence."
"My dad sided with me (since he hates my uncle anyway) but my sister agreed with my cousin and said I shouldn't have said how much money I make... or talked to my uncle the way I did because it was impolite."
"So AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. He asked a question. You answered."
"He insulted you, and you defended yourself."
"Don't dish it out if you can't take it is my motto."
"If he got his ego bruised by your salary then his entire worth lies with his paycheck that came from the job."
"A lot of people can study to become pilots, but only a handful can code." ~ NaryaGenesis
"'Ask a stupid question, get a correct answer' shouldn't be offensive."
"He's probably upset because she makes more than he does. NTA." ~ Thriftyverse
"If we're talking mottos I'm going to go with 'hoist by his own petard.'"
"Uncle deserves what he got: he asked, she answered. NTA." ~ PoppySiddal
"Don't ask people how much they make if you cannot handle knowing how much money they make."
"This is especially true with coworkers."
"I'm not against being open about salaries in the workplace, but you better damn well be able to handle it." ~ ImissDigg_jk
"NTA... typical boomer bulls**t."
"You work hard and have skills that companies are willing to pay that much for."
"Good for you."
"It's not like you were rubbing it in his face either, HE was pushing the topic."
"This just reeks of jealousy, pettiness, and insecurities (of your uncle)."
"He was being rude, not you." ~ nicolasbaege
"NTA, he's just jealous of how late in life he got the same salary if he ever has."
"This whole 'it's rude to talk about your salary' crap is just a way for companies to underpay some people in a department in my opinion."
"If everyone knows what the people around them are paid for the same job and experience, they'd have to be paid equal." ~ OrganicChemistrees
"I'm sooo happy OP told him off."
"He insulted OP after he asked in such a derisive tone how much she makes."
"It's like why even ask if you're gonna make a nasty comment about it?"
"Anyway, I hope OP or her father told her uncle how he needs to change his behavior because this is crazy disrespectful."
"Otherwise congrats to you on your success OP!"
"Don't let anyone put you down for your hard work!" ~ StreetSeaweed2
"He might be biased against your uncle but he has a good reason."
"You were completely justified in that whole interaction."
"I also don't like that whole be polite to family because they are family crap."
"Sometimes they need to be stood up to."
"NTA. And good for you."
"Just don't let the petty jerks get you down." ~ roachsgirl
"I have an uncle like yours lol."
"He loves to brag about my cousins, who both have financial degrees."
"I work in tech, similar to you."
"I make nearly twice what my cousins do."
"But I never say anything."
"I also chose to buy a car well below my budget so I can go on vacation, enjoy things, go out to eat."
"My one cousin bought a Camero."
"My uncle was like one time 'maybe someday you'll be able to afford a nice car like that, just work hard and you'll get there.'"
"I'm always just like yeah you're right buddy, thanks."
"Just build your empire and ignore it." ~ Coyote__Jones
"It's rude to talk about your salary, yeah."
"Part of it is definitely for the benefit of management, making sure there's a taboo against employees talking to each other and figuring out who's being f**ked over."
"Because they don't know how much they could get from a negotiation."
"But a big part of it is, also, friends and relatives not holding their respective incomes over each other's heads, or opening yourself up to being guilted into 'helping,' and on and on."
"Salary talk opens up a huge can of worms and the polite thing is usually to just keep it to yourself."
"But the flip side is that it's ruder to flat-out ask someone about their salary."
"And if someone does open that door, they have zero grounds to get pissy about what they find inside."
"You're absolutely NTA here." ~ insomniac7809
"Not boomer crap."
"I'm a boomer and I fully support OPs response."
"Your pay is directly related to your skill set and how hard you are to replace."
"It has nothing to do with age."
"Uncle asked a question then retaliated because he didn't like the answer."
"I've seen that behavior in all age groups."
"As an engineer I would recommend not disclosing your salary."
"People don't understand what you do and then think it's 'unfair' that you get paid that even though most people can't do the job."
"It never ends well. NTA." ~ LadyLightTravel
"You're NTA, but as a high-earning young female I have not told my family my salary."
"Yes I work hard for it, but plenty of people in other industries do more than I do for less."
"In my opinion, it's just not worth the drama that it would cause." ~ alittleberdie
"NTA. You work for that salary."
"You were hired for a reason because you were the best candidate for the position."
"And for that reason, they are paying you a healthy salary."
"Good for you OP!"
"I'm in the same occupation field."
"Certain positions pay well because it's a demanding job."
"He's just mad because he doesn't make that much."
"You do you!" ~ teds_trip22
"Hey OP, you're my age!"
"So, I don't know how long you've been working but if you believe they're paying you a good salary then keep on owing it, just like you did."
"You must be a brilliant person and hella skilled and your organization hopefully also sees all the potential you hold."
"Proud of you girl."
"Also, ignore the boomers."
"I'm a brown girl and I also make decent money for my age."
"Could it be more? Yes. Are we complaining during a pandemic? No."
"And my uncle (all these uncles suck, I tell you) also says the same."
"That I don't need to make so much money and that it'll all go to my husband after I'm married."
"Anyway, my point is, you're an amazing person and you gotta keep it up with your amazing job."
"There's only one way for you and that's up. All the best, OP!"
"ETA: forgot to add NTA in all of my excitement so NTA NTA NTA NTA." ~ ughrheawhy
OP returned with some deets...
"Wow, I didn't expect this to blow up!"
"Thanks for the responses, everyone."
"I asked here because only my dad seemed to think what I said was okay."
"And he's not exactly an unbiased party since as mentioned, he can't stand my uncle."
"I have always heard it's rude to talk about your salary too, which is why I wondered if what I said was crossing a line."
"But now that I've read in multiple comments it's actually a tactic that employers use to keep employees in the dark."
"I don't feel bad about saying the number."
"And I don't feel bad about defending myself either!"
"I feel justified in how I reacted now."
"For more info on my uncle - he's a retired airline pilot."
"So I don't think he's even jealous/bitter about how much I make, he's just a jerk."
Well OP, Reddit is with you.
You earn your keep.
Enjoy your car and your position.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp