We always want to support our friends and family in all their endeavors.
However, doing so might prove challenging if they don't show any conventional talent for what they might be pursuing.
Many find it best to allow themselves to keep at it as long as it makes them happy and maybe learn from themselves that they might not have what it takes to keep at it in the long run.
Others think constructive criticism, or even brutal honesty, is the best solution, no matter how they may take it.
Redditor aitaloudsinging had two stepdaughters, one who showed an incredible talent for singing, the other... did not.
Even so, nothing could stop the younger one from singing her heart out, even at times and places that the original poster (OP) didn't find remotely appropriate.
Having finally had enough, the OP gave their stepdaughter an ultimatum to stop singing during a certain time and place, throwing in their honest opinion about her stepdaughter's talent level as well.
Wondering if they were out of line, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where they asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for being rude to my stepdaughter and banning her from eating with the family?"
The OP explained why their stepdaughter's singing led to their banning her from the dinner table:
"I have 2 stepdaughters, Scarlett (18), and Ava (16)."
"Scarlett is an amazing singer."
"She's been in some kind of voice lessons since she was ten and just graduated from one of the best performing arts schools in the state, where she went on a full scholarship since 6th grade."
"She has a YouTube channel where she sings that she's starting to make money from and was accepted into some very prestigious music schools."
"Additionally, she has been working paid gigs for the last two years and makes at least $500-1000 per week, more in the summers."
"She's even been the opening artist at a few concerts.'
"I'm not trying to brag; I'm just saying she's an objectively good singer."
"Ava, on the other hand, is not a good singer."
"She likes to believe she is, and she might become one if she actually stuck with voice lessons or choir classes, but she always quits after 1-2 weeks because they're 'bullying her' (giving constructive feedback, I've seen the notes her classmates and teachers have given her)."
"Ava also likes to sing very loudly and/or at bad times."
"For example, if she feels that we're too quiet at the dinner table she starts to loudly sing."
"It doesn't sound good, and I honestly don't know how she doesn't hear it."
"If you ask her to stop she keeps going and if you're blunt and say stop, that doesn't sound good/we don't want to hear it she keeps going and gets even louder just to annoy you."
"If we're in the car and we don't let her choose the songs, she'll loudly sing whatever she wants, not what's playing, to annoy us and respond the same way we do to telling her to stop."
"The only person she listens to is her dad."
"A few weeks ago we were trying to eat and she was singing again."
"I told her to stop and she refused so I took her plate and told her she is no longer allowed to eat at my table."
"She can eat in her room, the backyard, her car, the garage, wherever she wants as long as we can't hear her from the dining room, and this will continue until she can behave appropriately at the table."
"My husband and I argued about it, but he's not home for dinner, so there isn't much he can do about it."
"Today she was eating lunch with us and started singing again."
"I told her to stop and she didn't listen so I again took her plate and told her to eat somewhere where we can't hear her if she doesn't want to act appropriately."
"Ava argued that she's a better singer than Scarlett and that Scarlett sings all the time."
"I was done with her bullsh*t so I asked her how many times someone other than her dad has actually asked her to sing, not even paying her to be there, just ask her to sing or how many performing arts schools she's gotten accepted to (she's applied to many)."
"She started to cry, and my husband wants me to apologize for being rude to her and insists I allow her to eat with the family again."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH – No A**holes Here
The Reddit community was somewhat divided as to whether or not the OP was the a**hole for how she treated her stepdaughter.
Many agreed that the OP was right in putting an end to Ava's behavior, but also felt they went too far in being so brutally honest about her singing talents, or lack thereof.
"ESH."
"Ava, just because she sounds annoying af and you because you're a parent and she's a child, and you've (seemingly repeatedly) told her she's not good at something she's passionate about and not in a nice way."
"Encourage her to follow other pursuits, and definitely continue to enforce that it's inappropriate to sing when people want a quiet meal loudly but brutally laying out that she's rubbish at the one thing she's passionate about and rubbing in her failure to succeed is pretty harsh when it's coming from a parental figure."
"Especially when it's followed up with 'and now go eat alone'."- Bn0503
"ESH: It sounds like she is very envious of her sister, and it's causing her to act out."
"She's being immature and annoying."
"But it sounds like you all are very quick to remind her that she sucks at singing."
"It shouldn't be about how good she is or isn't."
"It should be about being disruptive and loud at the table, in the car, etc."
"There are times when singing is appropriate and other times when it isn't."
"If Scarlett were singing loudly at the dinner table, would she be asked to stop?"
"If not, then you guys are extra a**holes."- SoMuchMoreEagle
There were a few, however, who thought that the OP's tough love was just what Ava needed, even if they thought she could have been a little more sensitive.
"It isn't doing anyone any favors by letting people think they're talented when they're not."
"Think the number of people who embarrass themselves auditioning for TV talent shows."
"And Ava's behavior at the table and in the car is clearly obnoxious and inappropriate."
"Maybe the delivery to get the message across was a bit harsh."
"But I'll go with NTA."- RocknRight
While others felt the OP went way too far and crossed an unforgivable line, sensing that the OP gave far too much attention to Scarlett and Ava was just clearly vying for attention herself.
"It's clear just from your post that you ring Scarlett's praises and cannot stand Ava."
"If it's that obvious in this post, I'm gonna guess your favoritism is seeping into Ava's reality as well."
"YTA and a bully."
"I'd be questioning my marriage if my partner treated my child like this."- Melodic_Salamander55
"Okay, for almost the entirety of this story, I was ready to say NTA until the very end."
"So her sister gets to sing at the dinner table?"
"Just not her?"
"I mean, I think it's weird to sing at the dinner table anyways, but if you have a double standard going on here, then YTA."
"Ava is YOUNGER then her sister, sometimes it takes some time to get better at something and acting rude to her and discouraging her because you clearly don't like her makes you an AH."
"Either ban singing at the dinner table completely or keep your mouth shut and invoke the thumper rule, 'If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all'."- Specialist-Owl2660
"YTA."
"When talking about Scarlett, you were bragging like someone about to burst their buttons."
"When you talk about Ava, you have nothing good to say."
"I'm sure Ava has felt this discrepancy for quite a while."
"Ava might be trying to ruin music for you as a way to get even for your attitude."
"It sounds like she wants to hurt you to the same degree that you hurt her."
"While this is wrong, it is understandable."
"You need to have your husband sit down with Ava to discuss the situation."
"You have already shown your bias for Scarlett, so there won't be too much that you can say that Ava would be willing to listen to, and you really can't blame her."
"What is Ava good at?"
"What does Ava want to do with her life?"
"Where does Ava see herself in two years, when it's time for her to graduate high school and move on to the next step of her life?"
"If she doesn't know, or if she only wants to pursue music - then your husband should help her plan a course of action to get her where she wants to go."
"You may want to consider letting her see a counselor who might be able to navigate these waters."
"Her sister is very good at something."
"You are boastingly proud of Scarlett."
"I didn't hear you say anything nice about Ava."
"A counselor might her her 'find her voice'; set goals; work out a plan to achieve her goals; help her deal with a successful sibling who gets all kinds of recognition while she only gets insulted."
"If you aren't able to get Ava some help, her next steps will become more serious - possible self-destruction, or destruction of her relationships in her family."
"Either way, I think you need to stay out of it since you appear to be a major part of the problem and hopefully her father can help her navigate how to salvage her future."- G0t2ThinkAboutIt
It's not unfair for the OP to teach Ava that there are some expectations about how people should behave in public or with company which usually doesn't entail breaking into song whenever you feel like it.
Whether or not that should cost her a seat at the dinner table or if her insufficient talent should have come into play is a different story, however.
Ava could very well know that she is no match for her older sister, that she could always live in her shadow, and that she just wishes she could have just a smidgen of the attention Scarlett gets.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp