When a marriage falls apart the fallout can be massive.
Emotional scars and trauma can linger for a lifetime.
This is especially true if the reason for the ending was infidelity.
When people cheat, they never seem to think about the consequences.
All actions have consequences.
And repairing relationships is an uphill journey.
Redditor SwingUsual6196 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for leaving a family party early when my father's wife wouldn't leave me alone?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (19 M[ale]) became estranged from my father two years ago after he was outed for having an affair."
"The woman in question is someone he had worked with, who knew he was married, who had met my mom and me, and had seemed a little off at the time."
"We now know it was because she liked my Dad and wanted me to like her."
"I was disgusted with my Dad."
"He tried denying it, then he tried to convince Mom it was a one-night stand and nothing more and he'd forever regret it."
"Then he wanted her to stay with him and raise the baby he knocked the other woman up with since they only had me."
"Even when he moved in with the other woman he kept trying to stop my Mom from going through with the divorce."
"He tried to get me to talk to Mom on his behalf."
"He told me my Mom was the one breaking up our family and not him."
"Then when he gave up and accepted that my Mom wouldn't take him back, which is when the other woman lost the baby, he tried to get me on board with things."
"I ignored all calls and texts from him."
"I couldn't block him while still a minor."
"But I didn't reply and I didn't see my Dad face to face during this."
"I knew I wanted him out of my life for good."
"He tried to make me see him but he failed."
"And once I turned 18 it was over for him."
"He ended up marrying the other woman and now they're expecting a kid together."
"I don't want anything to do with any of that, including the baby, and yes even if I don't have to see them I have zero interest in knowing that child and any future children."
"I still see the extended family."
"Which is why I was at a party they also attended (but weren't technically invited to)."
"During the party, my Dad's wife approached me and told me she wanted to talk, I said no and walked away."
"I walked away from her again."
"The third time she spoke before I could move and said she wanted her baby to know their brother and she wanted me to be a part of their family."
"She wants to know me and have me for dinner and maybe I could spend some time with them."
"She tried the whole 'we're family now' crap and I left early because I did not want to deal with it."
"I thanked the hosts who were already annoyed that she and my Dad were there (a couple of Dad's siblings want him around still and the others don't but to keep the peace they let them stay)."
"The two siblings of my Dad who think we should all be easier on him and forgive him were so pissed at me for leaving early because then the rest of the family turned on Dad."
"They told me I could have spoken to the woman and not taken it out on her, since she didn't do anything to me."
"And leaving was an O[ver]-T[he]-T[op] reaction and not a mature one which caused 'family disharmony.'"
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA…Your father created family disharmony, not you or anyone else."
"I would not attend any events with the siblings that think things should be easier." ~ Worth-Season3645
"If she wants a family where everyone accepts her and her baby with open arms, she probably shouldn't have been a homewrecker."
"She thinks everything resets to neutral once she has the ring on her finger? NTA." ~ lyrical_llama
"NTA. Leaving was the absolute mature thing to do."
"You left without causing a scene."
"You have no obligations to this woman to talk to her."
"She ruined your family as well as your dad."
"There is no 'we are family now' it is a 'your dad is no longer family to you because of her and his stupid doing.'"
"You are civil, you don't make anyone take sides and you are still keeping it civil when they show up uninvited by just not talking to them."
"This is a mature way."
"But I think, some people can't understand that you are also hurt by what your dad did."
"That it can be okay to forgive cheating parents and also that it is okay if you can't forgive them."
"It is up to you and your feelings."
"And it will absolutely not help if someone you are not willing to speak to is forcing herself into a conversation with you (as she has forced herself into your family)."
"Maybe talk to a relative, if they can be a mediator between you and those two siblings (and maybe your dad)."
"And that that relative tells those siblings something along the way 'the OP is dealing with this stuff.'"
"'What you are doing is driving OP further away from our side of the family.'"
"'I'm glad that OP still talks to us and some to our parties.'"
"'Stop trying to force him to interact with persons he doesn't want to interact with.'"
"'And maybe help to keep OP's dad's wife away from him.'"
"'So that there is a little chance that maybe someday OP is ready to reconnect with his dad.'"
"'But if this woman is ripping up old wounds, it will never happen.'"
"'And you are as much to blame for that as the wife.'"
"'It is OP's choice how to deal with this situation.'"
"'You are okay, with what OP's dad did - okay.'"
"'But show the same respect to OP and accept how he is dealing with this situation.'" ~ Trevena_Ice
"NTA. 'Family disharmony?'"
"You know what causes family disharmony?"
"Cheating on your wife and getting your affair partner pregnant." ~ TemptingPenguin369
"NTA. My dad's partner tried something like this with me."
"But my sisters and I were already in our 30s."
"This woman tried to introduce me to my step-siblings and called herself my step-mom."
"They probably heard my response in the next county."
"I talk to my dad twice a year, and I'm fine with that."
"He's the one who wrecked the marriage, he can live with the consequences."
"You're an adult now, you do you and, as long as you're okay with it, ignore your relatives who spout the whole family crap."
"It takes more than blood to be family." ~ Objective_Grocery525
"NTA. Even disregarding the whole messy situation, following you around at a party, and pestering you to talk to her is over-the-top behavior."
"Continuing after being rebuffed three times certainly indicated it wasn't going to stop and that leaving was your best option."
"'Family disharmony' took place long ago and wasn't exacerbated by you leaving."
"I've left parties after being 'stalked' by zealots. :/ " ~ BefuddledPolydactyls
"I might be too petty and a bit vindictive."
"But the second they tried the 'don't take it out on her, she didn't do anything to you.'"
"I would have asked both her and dad, 'You didn't do anything? So you weren't of sound mind the whole affair? When greeting me and my mom before the divorce? Did he force you? Omg, Dad, I didn't take you to be THAT kind of person.'"
"And then block everyone defending them." ~ Dangerous-WinterElf
"Right, like clearly OP removing himself from the situation makes him the ONLY mature person at this party."
"He didn't want to be harassed by the woman who was so selfish that she couldn't take no for an answer."
"And didn't care about blowing up a family as long as she got what she wanted."
"So he left the party hosted by people who aren't mature enough to say 'No I don't want the homewreckers at my party' and stand by their word and convictions with guests who have no respect for his own boundaries and autonomy and keep insisting that the cheater did nothing that can't be forgiven." ~ Environmental_Art591
"NTA. You don't want to associate with cheaters."
"What's not to get?"
"If the woman wanted to have a relationship with her partner's older children, she should've gone for a widower or someone that was already divorced, before she sunk her claws into him."
"Is it all her fault?"
"Of course not, you can't have sex with a married man who doesn't want to have sex with anyone but his wife."
"But she doesn't get to play the poor, misunderstood stepmom." ~ Special_Lychee_6847
"NTA - She was forceful in her attempt to try and coerce you into doing what she wanted."
"If she tried once and just stopped, it would be reasonable, but you had no idea if she would've stopped at the third attempt or would continue to grate at your nerves for the whole evening." ~ No_Construction_1096
"NTA. You were being harassed by your dad's wife and left without creating a fuss."
"That's the opposite of having an OTT reaction."
"You took yourself away from the situation because you didn't want to cause a scene."
"They should be pissed off with her, not you." ~ 3bag
"NTA. Block them. And leave any future parties with them in it." ~ Shichimi88
"NTA- I bet you those two siblings knew about your Dad cheating."
"You should ask them and the family about it." ~ravenlyran
OP responded...
"They'd never admit it and nobody else in the family thinks they knew for sure, maybe suspected."
"But the two that argue in favor of my Dad are just like that in general."
"They're all 'but faaaaamily!!' and they're horrified so many of us have written off my Dad for cheating."
"From what I know about her, she comes from the kind of family that will judge her for being the other woman."
"They can be less harsh if things are 'okay' so I think there's a lot of that involved."
"I think a lot of it has to do with reputation."
"I also think another part is the fact Dad fought so hard to get my Mom to stay married to him."
"So she might be insecure and think if I end up joining their family for real, he'll think she's amazing and he won't cheat on her or leave her for my Mom."
"Not that my Mom would take him back."
OP, you protected yourself by making a clear boundary.
You did what you had to do for your peace of mind.
And Reddit is clearly on your side.
You're allowed to have whatever feelings you have from this trauma.
Try not to let them bother you.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp