Having kids isn't for everybody.
It's certainly not for the faint of heart.
Some people prefer just having pets and plants.
And there is a myriad of reasons for this decision.
Sometimes it's because of the kids themself.
Redditor WorthPickle5161 wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback. So naturally, they came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
They asked:
"AITA for telling my SIL that kids like hers are the reason I'm childfree (because they stole my keepsakes)?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I can't decide if I should feel guilty about this or just be angry."
"Tending toward angry right now but I need a reality check, especially because I'm not a parent."
"My husband and I are in our late 30s."
"My family doesn't care about me being childfree, but my husband's family has asked pointedly about 'time running out' a few times."
"My husband is a really sweet man who actually loves kids, and even I find them endearing most of the time."
"But we don't think parenting is worth it for us."
"We have cats."
"My S[ister]-I[n]-L[aw] has 2 kids, they're 7 and 9."
"They are staying with us for a week because they wanted to visit our city for vacation."
"We have a bookcase of keepsakes in the living room."
"We have flowers from our wedding in resin, I have my granddad's coin collection, we have trinkets from trips we've been on and other things like theirs."
"2 shelves worth of stuff."
"None of it is worth any money, just very sentimental."
"Well, today I noticed 2 things missing - our wedding flower and a bracelet from my middle school friend."
"Obviously I kind of freaked out and I asked my SIL if she had any idea."
"Her kids were also there and they looked a little odd so I asked them if they knew anything."
"They said no but they looked upset."
"SIL got mad and said I can't accuse her kids of anything."
"I insisted on looking in their room and I found the things."
"I asked the kids why they took them and they said they looked cool."
"I was really mad but my SIL told them to go down."
"She told me not to make such a big deal and the kids were scared."
"I said kids like this are why we're child-free."
"She said I crossed a line."
"I think the kids heard too because they were probably hanging around upstairs and trying to listen in."
"But I truly didn't mean for them to hear."
"My husband says I'm right but since we got the stuff back I could have let it go."
"And not drag him into it."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"They were staying at your house for a week, as guests, because they wanted to visit your city for a vacation."
"Your SIL does not get to get mad at you, her host, and she does not get to tell you not to make a big deal out of her children stealing your stuff because 'it looked cool.'"
"WITAF? If she is displeased with your hospitality for any reason, there are hotels and Airbnbs."
"Your really sweet husband, btw, does not get to b*tch at you for 'dragging him into it' -- it's his family, that's why they were staying in your home."
"Saying that you are childfree because there are children like your SILs out there doesn't even rise to the level of an awful thing to say."
"If ever there was something not to make such a big deal about, this quip is it."
"You are NTA, and maybe they won't impose on your hospitality again, although I'd be surprised." ~ Content-Plenty-268
"Kids don't have fully developed frontal lobes, the part of the brain that holds the conscience."
"It is absolutely normal for young kids to steal and lie."
"They may 'know better' but the part of the brain that thinks about consequences just isn't all the way grown yet."
"It is much more important how the parent deals with it."
"A lack of discipline or consequences for the kids will instill in them that they can get away with this behavior."
"The SIL's reaction is the concerning part."
"Edit: some people are not reading the 'they may know better' part of what I just said."
"Yes the child may know that stealing is wrong, but at the moment, their impulses win out because their brain isn't fully developed."
"Not every kid does it, but it happens a lot, including a significant percentage of kids."
"I don't need to hear about the kids you know of that never ever stole, geez Louise." ~ Fancy-Garden-3892
"Nobody is giving the kids a pass."
"However it is SILs responsibility to discipline her children and teach them right from wrong and level meaningful consequences to ensure they grow up to be responsible and ethical adults."
"That's why responders are putting the actual responsibility on SIL and not the kids." ~ leeanforward
"Yep. My grandmother had knickknacks and breakable things All Over her house."
"We were taught before age two not to mess with other people's things."
"As in, carried around before we were walking reliably and practicing 'look don't touch' at her house, in stores, and at friend's houses."
"We could touch/play with things in anybody else's house or in a store Only if an adult pointed them out or handed them to us."
"My parents also had three or four households they would rotate us through trading favors for babysitting. Same rules."
"Parents would point out the play area and say we could use those toys, and we would leave everything else in the house alone."
"And certainly not drag it off to hide it!"
"Were we perfect? No."
"But it was far from Normal for us to steal things, especially by third grade!!" ~ Meghanshadow
"Nope on the not understanding consequences part."
"Kids this age know that they don't want their stuff stolen."
"And they know enough to know that people 'get in trouble' for doing things they shouldn't."
"This is a parent problem, not a kid problem."
"Their parents have obviously shown them that there are no consequences for bad actions, and the rules don't apply to them."
"I'd ask them all to leave."
"They clearly don't respect boundaries, and they clearly don't respect the OP." ~ shockingRn
"Yup. One of my most vivid childhood memories is stealing a case full paper clips from a family member's house at the age of like 5 or something."
"It was the colored paper clips."
"When my mom was getting me ready to leave, she found it and gave me a good talking to about why it was wrong."
"She then made me give it back to the family member and apologize in front of everyone who was there."
"The family member gave me the paper clips, but that was such a pivotal moment for me." ~ Fun_Minimum4150
"The idea that the SIL made excuses is a big issue."
"No reprimanding them for theft and lying."
"SIL should have been apologizing for embarrassment."
"Had them apologize and grounded them."
"Makes me wonder how often they've done this. NTA." ~ anaisaknits
"Well, you included everything I wanted to say."
"The kids lying and stealing IS a big deal."
"SIL's attitude should get her kicked out."
"And, the 'really sweet' husband is not so really sweet after all... this is HIS family."
"He needs to utilize his backbone and not try to vilify his wife."
"OP, NTA. Husband is an AH."
"SIL is an enormous AH." ~ Chloe_Phyll
"OP, I don't know the details of your conversation with your SIL."
"The facts are that her children took your mementos without your permission."
"Your SIL was offended apparently by your reprimand of her children and your comment about remaining child-free."
"It sounds like you were being truthful."
"Apparently, your SIL does not want to accept your truth. I suppose as a parent she needs to justify her choices; realistically her choices only need to be correct for her."
"Ideally, she should respect your choices."
"Not all choices require peer affirmation. NTA." ~ stephnetkin
"Hey OP. The most important question?"
"Have you kicked your SIL and her pet thieves out of your house?"
"Generally, I say that parents have to deal with their own kids and should be allowed to do that but the mother's response here was that you weren't allowed to accuse her kids."
"99% of the blame is on your SIL rather than the children here."
"This means she should be kicked out. NTA." ~ naraic-
"NTA. SIL is doing her kids a disservice."
"They are not being taught right from wrong or boundaries."
"I'm a mom and a grandmother and neither I when my kids were growing up, nor my Son and DIL would do anything less than correct this behavior and make them apologize."
"Kids make mistakes, parents have to learn not to take it so personally, correct, and move forward." ~ BoyzMom13
"My older brother, now late 40s, was a little s**t when we were growing up."
"He was always nicking my stuff, or even just taking shared gifts (a computer was a big deal in the early/mid-80s) and appropriating them, and got away with it."
"He's older, girls don't like computers/don't know how to use them (no sh*t, I got about half an hour in ten+ years of 'shared' computers that he eventually took to pieces, couldn't reassemble, got a replacement 'shared' one etc etc)."
"I was always basically told to suck it up…"
"I have always been child-free, was worried when he had kids that he would continue like this, and have terribly behaved kids."
"Nope, he's apologized for being a little sh*t and has taught his kids better."
"They are teenagers now, but even as little kids, they knew to keep their hands off other people's stuff."
"Always ask before touching something, and do not throw a fit if they aren't allowed."
"They also learned to share, lol."
"And when they were little and visited me, they were absolutely fine."
"I intensely dislike my ex-SIL, but I cannot criticize her for how she has brought up my nephews. Gentle correction, and, as you say, not taking it personally."
"NTA, kids aren't either."
"SIL is, though, and needs to do better, or her kids will be AHs too." ~ FrauZebedee
Well, OP, Reddit is with you.
You're allowed to feel angry about this.
And your reasons for not having kids are yours and yours alone.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp